The Side Effects of Discipline

Summary

This episode explores the multifaceted nature of discipline, its impact on mental health, and how it can be cultivated to improve life quality. Lindsay and Mike share personal stories, practical tips, and insights on building discipline, managing setbacks, and understanding its role in personal growth.

Keywords

discipline, mental health, self-improvement, habits, resilience, personal growth, mental illness, motivation, consistency, self-esteem

Key Topics

• The role of discipline in mental health and personal growth
• Strategies for building and maintaining discipline
• The impact of rigidity and flexibility in discipline

Takeaways

• Discipline can raise your baseline, making your worst days better.
• Starting small with discipline builds self-esteem and habit.
• Flexibility in discipline is crucial to adapt to challenges.

Guest Name

Sound Bites

• "Discipline raises the floor, not just the ceiling."
• "Discipline can help you pivot through challenges."
• "Rigidity can hinder your ability to adapt."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Personal Updates

04:48
The Reality of War and Its Impact

12:07
The Upsides of Discipline

14:29
Discipline and Self-Esteem

17:02
Challenges of Rigidity in Discipline

18:18
The Importance of Flexibility

20:55
Final Thoughts on Discipline

Resources

• The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
• Inversion Table

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Transcript

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:01.711)
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm Lindsay and I'm here with my co-host, Mike. What's going on?

Mike Ergo (00:09.549)
Hey.

I would tell you the last few days have been excruciating. I wrenched my back. I pulled it out. So I've been limping around. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:21.339)
that back pain is the friggin worth. How did you do that?

Mike Ergo (00:27.586)
man, it was nothing cool. It's never anything cool. Never stopping a terrorist attack and not like saving people from getting hit by a bus. It's a, I was coaching baseball and kid threw a ball in the dirt and I bent down too fast to get it and boom, got me.

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:31.279)
No, never.

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:47.511)
Well, at least okay. Coaching kids in baseball is better than. Not that I'm judging, but you did fuck yourself up playing kickball. So in the past, so at least coaching. Oh, I'm sorry. I hate the back pain and it takes a while for recovery and all of that good stuff.

Mike Ergo (00:57.964)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. We're stepping up.

Mike Ergo (01:12.238)
Oh man, I'm lucky though. got a good friend who lent me, what are they called? An inversion table, inversion chair. Yeah. You like it flips you upside down and stretches your back out. It's amazing. It's really good. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (01:21.244)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How is it?

Is it? I've always wanted to go on one of those. I love it.

Mike Ergo (01:31.682)
Yeah, it's, now I have the perfect opportunity and I can tell it's working, so.

Lindsay S. Hiken (01:37.627)
Okay, that's something to keep in the back of my head because I've always wanted to try one, but when I throw my back out, I never think about that's the time to use one. So awesome. What else is going on besides that?

Mike Ergo (01:50.478)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (01:56.222)
no, I started a new job. I'm nine to five in it now and, kind of nice little commute where I get to see the marsh and, it's, it's good. It's good. It's a meet my new coworkers and, you know, driving out to a different part of the bay.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:01.178)
Ooh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:14.747)
What's the new job?

Mike Ergo (02:19.436)
Well, I'm working for a certain hospital and I am treating people who generally have bipolar. And so, yeah, so I'm working with them individually and in group settings. so it's not, I'll say this, it's not completely different than what I've done in the past, but it's different enough to where, you know, I gotta learn a lot. So.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:29.266)
okay.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:35.277)
Nice, nice.

Mike Ergo (02:48.812)
I'm enjoying it so far one weekend and I'm making it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:52.985)
All right. Well, congratulations. I'm happy to hear that because I believe you're a good therapist. And I was bummed to hear that you were not doing that, you know, anymore. And so this sounds like a really great opportunity. And you and I have experience just personally with bipolar, with our good friend of our show going, you know, bipolar one and having some issues there. So.

Mike Ergo (02:54.253)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (03:15.758)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (03:23.161)
And then I have bipolar two, which I will say is a pretty mild case. I don't ever get manic or like completely separate from reality or get delusional. Thank God. It's more like it fluctuates from anxiety to feeling completely numb inside, you know, where I don't connect with anything.

Mike Ergo (03:38.786)
Yeah, right.

Mike Ergo (03:48.546)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (03:50.756)
So I have meds for that and they work beautifully, but I think it's an important thing to work with people that have this because I didn't know for the longest time that that's what I was dealing with because it's not so pronounced as other people. when someone finally diagnosed me, I was like, well, that explains why I'm like riddled with anxiety. And then we'll just be like, I'm dead inside. I don't care anymore, you know?

Mike Ergo (04:07.234)
Right.

Mike Ergo (04:14.498)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (04:20.077)
made a huge difference in my life and I've had therapy around it and all of that good stuff. So congrats.

Mike Ergo (04:25.518)
Thank you. Yeah, it's nicer to recognize or be able to label what you're going through for a couple of reasons, I think. You one, it's not so mysterious. And two, you know, you're not the only person who's dealt with it. So it's not as scary, I think. Yeah, I agree.

Lindsay S. Hiken (04:31.739)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (04:44.067)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. When they first got the, when I first got diagnosed, I was like, my God, no way, because I only knew about really pronounced cases of bipolar one. So I was like, what the fuck? I'm not going off, you know, on a completely delusional tangent. But then they explained to me kind of the, the, you know, my doctor says it's more like a spectrum than just.

Mike Ergo (04:56.438)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (05:09.121)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:11.235)
You've got this or you got this. And so when she explained that, I was like, OK, then that made sense. And it's true. You you don't feel alone and you are able to have treatment. And then I can label it like if I feel a lot of anxiety, I can be like, OK, that's what this is, as opposed to just being like, what is happening to me? Yeah.

Mike Ergo (05:30.648)
Yeah, I've experienced that with my struggle with post traumatic stress and the ability to say, this is, this is what's happening. And then it stops you from ramping up more and can kind of cut that cycle short. Yeah, it's very effective.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:52.444)
Speaking of PTSD and sort of how at least one of the reasons you came about having it being in Fallujah, Josh is he's really he watches and reads a lot of like he reads nonfiction and he likes to watch shows like about history and so he ends up watching things about war and stuff and

Uh, yesterday he walked into my office and was like, your podcast cohost, was he in Fallujah? And I said, yep. And he said, so he actually was like fighting over there. I was like, yeah, no one was chilling in Fallujah, you know? Um, and he just, you know, he had seen a piece on it, um, and was like, we've talked about before, none of us have any idea what it's like to be over there, but he was like,

Mike Ergo (06:34.926)
Pool was closed.

Lindsay S. Hiken (06:47.547)
I wouldn't say impress is a word. He was just like overwhelmed that somebody like human beings, you know, you you're more real to him because he knows we do our podcast together and he was just like, my God, this was. Yeah, he he was just kind of a little shocked and about what went on there and how individuals had to deal with.

Mike Ergo (06:59.929)
huh.

Mike Ergo (07:03.766)
Makes more real, doesn't it? If you know somebody.

Lindsay S. Hiken (07:17.243)
so many so many different challenges there. So anyway, you've made it real for him now. You did that for me and you made it real for him now. And he's like, I'm going to. And then the next thing I know, he's watching something completely different. think he was like, I'm going to stop watching this now. I'm freaked out. So. hmm. Mm hmm. Well, I thank you for sharing, you know, your story about that, because I think it's important for people to understand.

Mike Ergo (07:20.706)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (07:33.824)
You can go down a rabbit hole. gets pretty nitty gritty. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (07:46.628)
the real, especially, you right now we're in a war and I think I connect more with the reality of what's happening and the human cost of what's happening than I did before I met you.

Mike Ergo (08:03.629)
Mmm.

It's hard. Yeah, I appreciate that. it's hard to do that unless you know somebody, think. So, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:12.219)
Mm Yeah, because it's a theory and it can get a little. You know, downplayed, think in the media and.

Mike Ergo (08:25.23)
Well, you you watch something on the news is just recycled clips usually. Um, and then it's also just numbers and numbers aren't people. So it's easy to be like, Oh, this number of troops is going that way. Okay. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:29.435)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:33.595)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:38.971)
Mm hmm. Right. Right. Right. And I definitely experienced that. I just, you know, I have an uncle who was in the Navy, but he was a commander and he was on a nuclear. He commanded a nuclear submarine, which is great. But during the Cold War.

Mike Ergo (08:56.61)
Wow, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:59.607)
he would just be missing for months if there was a war because he did some type of weapons development science that was a top secret deal. So if there was ever any kind of threat where they felt like he might be targeted, they would just hide him. But he wasn't really like he wasn't boots on the ground. You know, he was this they had sent him to MIT and he was doing this. So it was very different. It's more like administrative. So there was no real connection with like

Mike Ergo (09:25.776)
huh. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:30.507)
what it's really like for people to be out there. So. Yeah, he was a big old fat dude. He doesn't listen to this podcast, so I can say it. You looked at him and you're like, you're in the military like how, but it's because he was using his brain, not his body, you know, and. Several times when he when he would go in for his physical, they'd be like.

Mike Ergo (09:34.67)
I see, yeah.

Mike Ergo (09:52.694)
I see, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:58.748)
bro, if you gain any weight, you're not even going to walk down the hallways of the submarine because it's very narrow. know what mean? It's very tight fit. Interesting dude. Don't not totally clear what he did, but it was something pretty pretty amazing because after he retired from the military, he worked at the Pentagon, continuing to do. His sort of weapons development work.

Mike Ergo (10:05.208)
So you fit.

Mike Ergo (10:09.902)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (10:27.643)
Whatever that is.

Mike Ergo (10:27.982)
Wow, yeah, Impressive secret stuff.

Lindsay S. Hiken (10:32.539)
Mm hmm. One time he said to me, you know, I work on these satellites. They're weather satellite. Like he tries to act like he's not doing what he's doing. We're like the whole family knows. We don't know the details of what he's doing, but we know what you do. So but then he would say stupid shit like I'm working on these weather satellites and we can pinpoint like a cell phone from space.

Mike Ergo (10:48.034)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (10:57.531)
And I'm like, oh, so you can blow up a person from space based on their cell phone. But we're talking like we're pretending it's Sweet. OK, great. You're a scary dude. Well, but that's not what we're talking about today. I will share a little bit about what's going on with me before we get into the topic. As I say, most recordings I'm tired.

Mike Ergo (10:57.634)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (11:04.766)
It's weather. It's weather.

Mike Ergo (11:16.909)
Yes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (11:25.371)
My sleep was bullshit and I have rekindled my love of reading romance novels, which is so cheesy, I know, but they're so, yeah, we're talking about, like I have a favorite.

Mike Ergo (11:38.472)
nice. Are we talking about like, romanticy? Like the...

Lindsay S. Hiken (11:46.158)
author Nora Roberts, and it's like, it's always like a damsel in distress type of situation. And then there's a hero and they have like an antagonistic relationship, but then it works out and they're love. And then they have very steamy, you know, hot sex and, and then they always get married and live happily ever after. Like it's a formula basically. But

Mike Ergo (12:01.314)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (12:09.415)
huh. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (12:12.219)
I've taken, I used to devour those, you know, and then I stopped for like decades and I started again because I could have them on my Kindle and read them like when I wake up in the middle of the night and it's not really. It's not like doom scrolling or reading the news or reading anything upsetting. It's just this like innocuous stuff. The problem is I'm reading a really good one right now. So in the middle of the night, when I woke up and couldn't sleep, I started reading it and I read it for like an hour and a half.

Mike Ergo (12:25.289)
huh.

Mike Ergo (12:30.199)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (12:39.864)
Hard to put down.

Lindsay S. Hiken (12:39.931)
So, yes. So I'm super tired today because of a romance novel. But I yesterday got an offer for a job that I wanted for a long time and I have a new job. No chill start at the end. Thank you. I'm super excited. had, as some listeners know, I had switched jobs like.

Mike Ergo (12:58.06)
Congratulations.

Lindsay S. Hiken (13:07.661)
only about a year and a half ago. And I made a wrong move. It wasn't what they said it was going to be. They just couldn't execute on what they said they were going to do, because I think it was a new new role for them. And so they had all these plans. then when I got there, it was like, you know, and there was a whole lot of nothing for me to do, which drives me nuts. I think.

Mike Ergo (13:19.502)
Mmm, yeah.

Mike Ergo (13:32.13)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (13:33.456)
I think some people would be happy doing very little and getting paid. But for me, it's boring. And it makes the day so long. So I was looking around a little bit, and there was a company that I had applied for a role for like months and months ago, probably six, eight months ago.

Mike Ergo (13:39.746)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (13:57.016)
And someone beat me out for the role. And I was like, so bummed because I really like this company and I wanted to work for them. And then their recruiter reached out to me a few months ago and said, we have another role. We want to talk to you. So that was really great. I was so excited. But again, I was trying to hold off on being too jazzed because there's competition for these roles. And, you know, it's a managing director role. And so

Mike Ergo (14:21.539)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (14:26.519)
I'm gonna manage some people and I'm gonna do, there's a merger happening, so I'm gonna do a little work on that and you know, it's exciting, it's exciting stuff. And I don't start till the end of April, so I have to wrap up at my current job and then I'm gonna take a little time off. Yay. Thank you. Thank you, I'm super stoked.

Mike Ergo (14:46.176)
Nice. Congratulations, Linz. Happy for you.

Lindsay S. Hiken (14:53.591)
So I feel like these people have a defined role. So they're not going to be like, we can't execute. We don't know what to do with you now. Yeah, definitely. And today we're going to talk about discipline and the side effects of discipline. And I don't know about you. There's things I'm disciplined about and things that I am not.

Mike Ergo (14:58.54)
Yeah, yeah, it makes it easier.

Lindsay S. Hiken (15:19.013)
So I'm disciplined about my job and going to work and doing what I need to do. I have a lot of discipline there. When it comes to working out, the discipline I had when I was training for Ironman seems to have left my body. I'm not sure what happened there. How are you on discipline?

Mike Ergo (15:25.378)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (15:40.707)
Yeah.

I'm pretty similar, know, working, getting stuff done, you know, for my kids, uh, pretty disciplined about, but yeah, working out. I definitely hit the discipline hiatus as soon as, uh, I'd say no, not as soon as COVID started around 2021 when I was finally, could not white knuckle it anymore. Um,

But yeah, I think having discipline across the board is tougher, especially if you don't have ways of really relaxing, because then it's just all stress. And so, you you push discipline into one area of your life and then others, it can just go haywire because it's so the energy has got to go somewhere. Something's got to give.

Lindsay S. Hiken (16:22.179)
Right. Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (16:34.107)
Mm-hmm.

What I find when I'm trying to force discipline on myself in all areas of my life, I feel this sense of guilt when I'm doing what, so.

I'll feel guilty I'm not executing on my workout plan when I'm at work, even though that day at work is gonna be a long day. I'm not gonna be able to execute on my workout plan because of that. And then if I'm working out, I feel guilty about not working because I know there's things for me to do and I should be doing those things. And I'm not really a type A personality. I've had people tell me in their minds I'm a type A personality, but I know some real...

Mike Ergo (17:02.667)
huh. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (17:20.153)
if you're in the endurance world, you know some real type A personalities and they are disciplined. Yes, exactly. I don't know, is that discipline or is that a personality trait?

Mike Ergo (17:20.674)
Yeah.

Good lord, yes. Yes. Yeah, to the minute.

Mike Ergo (17:35.726)
I think it goes, it kind of morphs into that the more extreme it gets. Yeah. So, I mean, if, if we're talking like people who are range into like the obsessive compulsive, you know, that's a personality, thing going on and that's a, that's a mental health condition.

to where they're compulsive and they have to do it. Whereas discipline seems more like you do things that you don't necessarily want to do because you believe in the overall mission.

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:19.799)
Okay, so the outcome that you're looking for informs what you're doing on a daily basis and you are able to do those things even regardless of how you feel about doing those individual things.

Mike Ergo (18:35.722)
Yes, it's kind of a bigger picture approach, I think.

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:39.397)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I did a little research and some of the some of the upsides are one of them. I think what we're kind of talking about here is an identity shift. And so you stop negotiating with yourself, you know, over time, the internal debate about whether to do the thing just sort of quiets because you're like, this is what I'm this is what I'm doing right now. And you become that person who's able to execute.

Mike Ergo (19:03.79)
huh. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:10.303)
and so that there's a little bit of a shift there in your identity. You're like, I'm the person who can execute on the plan that I put in place to reach an outcome. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (19:20.45)
Yeah. Right. Yeah, because you have examples of how you've done it. So you proved to yourself you can do it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:25.999)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. Which I think that's. I think that's important. mean, I don't know that people need to shift their identity, but I think that for me anyway, becoming someone who can be relied on to execute on certain things has been a self-esteem building exercise as well. You know. So.

Mike Ergo (19:50.196)
huh. Yeah. Well, right. Because you look at the other side of it and if there's things you, you know, aren't the best for you, but you keep doing them. Like, I don't know, probably for both of us eating lots of red vines when that comes up right afterwards, you're like, well, I did it again. I don't feel the greatest about this.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:05.211)
100%.

Right.

Mike Ergo (20:15.424)
And then if you, but if you're somebody you can say like, yeah, that would be cool for a second. However, I'm going to abstain from doing this or only have this amount that I've predetermined. Then you feel good that you have the willpower to say no to something that ultimately will help you feel better.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:23.407)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:28.367)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:32.699)
Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. They talk about in sobriety the concept of suspending what you want right now so that you can have what you want in the future. And that future thing is always a bigger, you know, it's a bigger thing than what you want right this second. So, for example, you know, fixing my relationship with my children was my overall what I wanted. Right.

But when I was drinking, it was like, I'll do that. But today, I'm going to get drunk. You know what I mean? Because the pain of not having that good relationship with my kids was great. And so I couldn't, I didn't have that ability to not do the thing right in front of me. Like right now I want this, I'm going to do this right now. And.

Mike Ergo (21:11.384)
Right, right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:26.189)
you never reach that overall bigger goal by

Well, it's not never. It depends on the goal. But a lot of times you don't reach it if you're just doing the thing right now that you want.

Mike Ergo (21:39.604)
huh. You're right. Yeah, you're scratching an itch and it's not helping you get close to the things, the goals that are directed by your values.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:43.002)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:50.222)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And some of these things are kind of, you know, mild. It's like the red vine example. Like what I'd like to do is not have sugar because I know it's not great for me. What I'm going to do in this moment is grab these red vines and eat a few. But they're not going to kill me. So that's OK.

Mike Ergo (22:06.07)
Right. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (22:12.11)
Yeah, exactly. When you put it in a big picture, there's some much more harmful things that people do to themselves that we've been around that a few red vines isn't the end of the world.

Lindsay S. Hiken (22:20.219)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (22:24.015)
Yeah.

Mm hmm. Although the longer I sober, the narrower the path gets, if you know what I mean. It's like I quit drinking and doing any drugs. And then it was like I smoked cigarettes like a maniac. Smoker. huh.

Mike Ergo (22:35.81)
huh. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (22:43.425)
yeah, yeah. I remember seeing the parking lots of just full of like cigarettes and then vapes. Yeah. Wow, you really like cigars like, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (22:55.867)
It was like, I'm not drinking or doing drugs. know, my sponsor would say, like, as long as you put your head on your pillow sober, like the other stuff will come and it doesn't matter. Smoke them if you got them and.

Mike Ergo (23:11.01)
Yeah, yeah, smoke them and drink lots of coffee.

Lindsay S. Hiken (23:14.875)
smoke, drink lots of coffee, have that sugar, that sugar. you're newly trying to get sober, sugar is a big, how aid in, addressing like, cravings right in the moment. If you're trying to get sober from alcohol, I used to saying, I don't like sugar. I don't eat sugar. I never ate dessert or anything while I was drinking. And it's because,

Mike Ergo (23:18.097)
Hahaha

Mike Ergo (23:32.141)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (23:39.388)
I was pounding sugar with because I was a wine drinker and there's so much sugar in wine. So it turns out I actually was ingesting a lot of sugar and have a little. So I'd have like, you know, some like chocolate or something when my craving would come up and then but then I kind of let go of that. And then I was about five years sober and I was like, these cigarettes are.

Mike Ergo (23:43.16)
Right.

Mike Ergo (23:48.723)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:06.359)
not great because I want to work out and I want to do endurance sports and smoking is hard to do and do endurance sports.

Mike Ergo (24:16.686)
Kind of contraindicated. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like, um, I don't know if we're shifting the conversation now, but it seems like once you, the, way that to start employing discipline and your life is to just try it in one area first and then let that spread as you go.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:18.811)
Mm Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:25.957)
Sure.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:38.971)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (24:44.066)
You know, to try to do an all or nothing approach is pretty hard. You'd have to have some pretty extreme consequences for failure to be able to do all or nothing to make it work. And I wouldn't recommend it, but you know, discipline starting with like making your bed every day when you get up, doing one thing that you know you need to do and

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:44.1)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:48.719)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:55.682)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:05.819)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (25:10.892)
doing that consistently. I remember there's this guy, Tim Ferriss, who's pretty famous, but he talks a lot about productivity and habits and excellence and mastery. And one of the things he always talked about was consistency, frequency over volume. So if you're starting to work out, for example, you're like, I want to get in shape. So I'm going to start working out better to work out five times a week for 10 minutes a piece.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:15.525)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:29.976)
uh-huh.

Mike Ergo (25:39.854)
than once a week for an hour. Right. So even though it's less time, you can, the consistency is what helps you build a habit and you can build the volume afterwards. Like you can increase those 10 minute workouts into 15, 20, 30, whatever you want it to. But as opposed to just do an infrequent longer workouts where you're probably going to get hurt. Like, like

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:50.138)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:54.543)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:59.216)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (26:05.761)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know that. We've talked a lot with runners and different athletes, and they seem to be, you know, consistent in terms of like if some a lot of the runners that we have interviewed, I follow on on social media and you'll see the very consistent running. And sometimes there is a large volume and sometimes there's not, the.

Mike Ergo (26:05.891)
Like I am right now, even though I wasn't working out when I got hurt.

Mike Ergo (26:27.796)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (26:34.233)
The fact is they're getting up and doing it every day or so. Yeah. Yeah. I'm currently doing the once a week and it's painful. know, it's not working really, to be honest, not building any. It's not really building anything. So I'm going to try discipline on that.

Mike Ergo (26:37.378)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (27:00.952)
Well, it's all dose dependent too. mean, if you look at it from a different angle, you know, once is better than none. And I think the thing about discipline that can be so hard is that we can feel defeated when it's not going ideally versus looking at like what's going right that we can build upon. So that's a, that's, think the part of the conversation that doesn't get talked about a lot. And you look at

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:08.762)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:21.477)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:28.079)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (27:29.068)
Yeah, there's people who are doing things ideally, but did they start out that way? No, they spent years to get to that level of, of having, let's say, if we're still talking about exercise, working out daily for X amount of miles or X amount of minutes or hours. They built that into their lives over months and years, usually.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:33.645)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:47.739)
Mm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:52.22)
Right, right. Yeah, and if you don't do it perfectly, it doesn't mean quit. That's the thing with discipline, is just not quitting because there was a fail at some point.

Mike Ergo (28:04.63)
Right, right. And with that, helps if you're to be disciplined, it helps to have an overall goal. And this could be an episode in itself and we'll do that on on goals and values. but just to tease that future episode, if you're to be disappointed, you're doing it for a reason. So what's the reason, right? And

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:13.539)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:19.228)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:28.431)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (28:29.806)
There's a few different kind of reasons that people have for being disciplined and one is an external validation. Like I want somebody else to recognize that I'm working out maybe. So they'll like the way I look. That's one example of an external validation and then internal validation. I want to do this because I know it'll make me feel good, you know, and internal validation, something for myself.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:38.437)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:53.121)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (28:57.018)
And then one that's called pro-social. If I work out, it'll inspire my kids to work out and, you know, or my coworkers or other people I care about. And so I'm helping them by doing this. And that seems to be the most effective one. The point is though, they have, I clearly define as specific as you can reason to be disciplined. Otherwise your subconscious and then your conscious mind is going to say,

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:03.482)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (29:25.9)
What are we doing this for? Why are we going through all this, this pain and discomfort?

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:27.461)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:32.249)
Right, right. Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. I did not know about the pro-social aspect of it that I didn't know it was called that, but I know like for you carrying the flag during triathlons was something external to yourself and that really helped you move forward with training.

Mike Ergo (29:52.976)
huh. Yeah. Yeah. And some of these can be a combination, right? You know, like I like the feedback I'm getting from other people. However, I like the way it makes me feel. And I like, I love the fact that it's helping other people while I'm doing it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:11.893)
Mm-hmm. One of the other things I got during my research was that it raises the floor for you, not just the ceiling. So like your worst days get better. So discipline doesn't make you perform at your peak every day. You're not going to perform at your peak, but it makes your baseline higher, which I think is a neat concept. Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (30:28.844)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (30:35.554)
That's a great point. That's a great point. Raises the floor, right? Where it's like our worst days, Lindsay used to be atrocious. Like we didn't know each other back then, but we know enough about each other that, right? We know enough about each other that we know our worst days were just horrendous. And now for you and I, our worst days, not.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:45.113)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:50.511)
Thank God.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:57.967)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:02.981)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (31:03.786)
nothing we're going to write a book about, but you know, we're, we're not passed out random places and et cetera, et cetera.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:06.639)
Right, right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:11.855)
Right, my worst day, my worst day now is better than like my best day when I was in the middle of my disease, you know, because the best I could do when I was really, really in my mental illness was.

Mike Ergo (31:20.12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:29.625)
barely function as a human being, you that was my best day. the idea that discipline is gonna raise the bar, I just really, really like that idea. I love finding ways to overall make my life a little incrementally better. And...

Mike Ergo (31:33.644)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (31:50.009)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:52.132)
So finding these ways to do that, this would be a way to do this. Pick, like you said, pick something to be disciplined about. It could be something small. If you make your bed every day for that example, you start feeling like that sense of accomplishment right off in the morning. And then you're going to pursue that sense of accomplishment. And that might lead to other activities that bring you there as well.

Mike Ergo (32:02.155)
huh.

Mike Ergo (32:10.434)
Yes, yes, exactly.

Mike Ergo (32:21.95)
One thing I wanted to add to what you're saying there before you get to the next point is that if it raises your floor, that's something to be able to more more readily insert a little more gratitude into because. If my worst day is like I don't work out, you know, and and I'm just maybe I go for a walk or I'm just hanging out with my family.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:22.469)
Mm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:35.791)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (32:47.943)
man, thank God my worst day is like that, right?

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:51.929)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can be grateful for the

Mike Ergo (32:54.958)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:58.363)
almost mundane things you can be grateful for.

Mike Ergo (33:02.754)
Yes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (33:04.571)
And I do think sometimes discipline can seem mundane. And we're going to talk about it in a little bit about the downsides of or the challenges of being disciplined. for me, sometimes that brain, that sort of, you know, my little squirrel brain.

doesn't want to live in what I perceive to be the mundane, but working through that and just like the point earlier about doing it when you aren't necessarily into doing it will help get over that hump. And then I do feel gratitude always when I kind of just work through what I was going to do instead of trying to switch it up, you know, to just be.

to just be interested in something or... Well, I think a good one, I don't wanna go through all of these points, but I think a good one to talk about, because we've had so many guests on the show who've talked about this, is that it raises your discomfort tolerance. And so the more you do hard things voluntarily,

Mike Ergo (33:58.883)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (34:18.055)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (34:23.085)
the less involuntary hard things that come up shake you. And yeah, I think endurance sports. It is it is. Endurance sports can teach you that lesson. By being disciplined with training and then, you know, what comes up during events.

Mike Ergo (34:28.354)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (34:32.364)
Yeah, that's a superpower.

Mike Ergo (34:38.04)
Right.

Mike Ergo (34:42.19)
Yeah, I mean.

Mike Ergo (34:47.374)
I mean, it translates, especially if you work with other people and something goes wrong, you can be the calm and it's the, you know, the chaos and be like, okay, this isn't ideal, but we're still alive. We're still breathing. Like we got this. We can shift a little bit.

Lindsay S. Hiken (34:53.403)
Hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:01.495)
Mm-hmm. True. That's right. That ability to pivot without falling apart. Some of the guests that we've had that I admire the most are guests that have this really high level of discomfort tolerance. And usually it's around working out, trail running, ultra distance running. You've seen a lot of people that we've talked with who have

Mike Ergo (35:23.607)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:28.219)
the ability to keep going like it's guaranteed during a hundred mile race that you're going to be in discomfort. No one's getting out of there without. Yeah, exactly. Lots of opportunities for discomfort and no one's getting out of there without, know, no one runs a hundred miles and just goes felt great the whole time. Just ran for 24 hours and the whole time it felt wonderful.

Mike Ergo (35:38.702)
Lots of opportunity.

Mike Ergo (35:50.698)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike Ergo (35:55.438)
Feel great. Cruised it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:59.61)
So I admire the mental aspects of doing that. Obviously, the physical aspects are impressive and stuff. But for me, I admire these mental aspects of their ability to say, OK, I am uncomfortable and sort of acknowledge it. And also, so what? I'm going to keep doing the thing I'm doing. Yeah, that's kind of a cool thing. Some of the harder side effects.

Mike Ergo (36:10.123)
huh.

Mike Ergo (36:16.078)
Yes. Yes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (36:27.099)
And this one I thought was pretty interesting. I experienced this being on the other side of it, which is impatience with others. So you can hold yourself to a standard, and then it becomes difficult to not to, it becomes difficult when you can see others are not doing that. You know, like.

Mike Ergo (36:37.166)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (36:51.48)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (36:54.509)
I'm going to work out every day at 6 a.m. and then my workout partner just sleeps in and doesn't show up. And it's like, what are you doing? I mean, they may have reasons for it, but.

Mike Ergo (37:03.426)
Right.

Mike Ergo (37:08.536)
Yeah, it can create, you know, like a general disdain for like out of shape people or people who aren't disciplined in the area or disciplined in.

Lindsay S. Hiken (37:09.795)
I'm rigid.

Lindsay S. Hiken (37:19.291)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Work, for example, if you're very disciplined about your work and you see someone else who is a slacker and there's always at least one at every job, I mean, you're not going to have a job. And. Yeah, if if if you're rigid about your discipline in any area, it definitely can color the way you view other people. So that's something to really watch out for, you know, and

Mike Ergo (37:30.819)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (37:49.296)
I don't know, you've had some good suggestions over time and I wonder what you think about this. Like what would be some some tricks for overcoming that initial thought of like, well, they're not doing the thing, they're XYZ.

Mike Ergo (38:00.85)
Mm-hmm. You know, what comes to mind is something I actually learned in the meeting rooms, which was don't get too far from the smell of your own vomit, which was a crude way of putting, no, where you started, no, where you started when you got here and put yourself in the shoes of those people who are just starting to try or don't know how or don't have the tools and

maybe be a resource for them, you know, be someone who can help be an ally, be a, be a helper, be a mentor, you know, because, you know, you realize that, okay, if you don't like people who are in shape and all you do is mean mug them and make fun of them, then you're creating a gap to where they're like, I can't be like this person when I don't want to cause he's a real ass, but

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:32.856)
Mmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:38.891)
Right, right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:58.093)
Right.

Mike Ergo (38:59.086)
Hey, all right. Uh, there's no room for, for learning how to get there because the gap is so wide. So, so if you see something that bothers you learn, look at solutions of how you could, obviously it's a problem for a reason. It's hard to discipline. If it was easy, it wouldn't be discipline.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:08.473)
Right. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:19.564)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:24.707)
Right, right. You wouldn't need it. You would just do the thing and you know.

Mike Ergo (39:26.264)
Right? Yeah. You just do it. Everybody would, would be, you know, ultra ultra runners and iron man people and everything else and straight A students and right. They just do it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:37.262)
Mm hmm. Right. And I think we need we need challenges in our life, I think, to really grow as human beings. So at the end of the day, we don't really want everything to be easy. We don't really want everyone to be able to do all of this stuff. We people need to be varied and and.

Mike Ergo (39:47.277)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:58.812)
you know, different in their perspective for us to to learn and grow from them. having that, like you said, having that disdain is not going to help you grow either. So say you're a self-focused person. OK, great. But looking at how you could help someone else take steps towards being disciplined is actually going to help you grow as a human being because you're going to learn something about. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (40:24.544)
Right. Yeah. If you truly do not like a certain challenge or a certain like disparity, then the way to do it is to help people through it. If you want that problem to get better, if you truly do, if you just want to sit there and hate other people and feel better about yourself, then that's different. How about it being asked, just stay away from me.

Lindsay S. Hiken (40:41.627)
All

Lindsay S. Hiken (40:45.625)
Have at it. Yeah. It's not exactly have at it somewhere else. And it's not a long term solution to happiness and joy and freedom to spend all your time hating everybody.

Mike Ergo (40:58.391)
No.

No, exactly. It's I, I've, I realize, and this is just kind of, I guess a little bit of a stretch, but what I enjoyed playing the game of baseball when I was growing up, but I love seeing other people succeed. love my son succeeding. love the kids on his team succeeding. So I love seeing something that I've helped teach and, and mentor come to fruition and see someone have that spark of, I can do this. Right.

whether it's on the baseball field or the people I've helped with endurance sports or whatever else, those moments are fun for me. So I like that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (41:39.216)
Yeah, me too. really enjoy, especially around things that I enjoy. Like, let's take, for example, triathlon. When I was super into doing triathlon, I would encourage others who weren't doing maybe anything, you know, to come out and try it. And they would say, well, I'm not you. And I would say anyone could do it if you're interested. And I got a reputation for

Mike Ergo (41:58.092)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (42:04.845)
encouraging people who hadn't previously thought about it. So someone would, have a friend who would introduce me to other people and she would say, and you better watch out because you're going to catch this disease called triathlon. Which was fun. It was fun to see them like go through all the changes and be excited and go to the first race with them and watch them do their first race. was so much, that's so much fun. Love it.

Mike Ergo (42:15.128)
Hahaha

Mike Ergo (42:18.754)
Yes, yes.

Mike Ergo (42:26.669)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (42:34.959)
So how about rigidity as a downside of discipline? I think that that's.

Mike Ergo (42:42.412)
Yeah, I think rigidity is a very real part of it. It's the people who are super disciplined aren't always the most fun to hang out with. That's for different reasons though. If you're someone who's doing things that aren't the healthiest and you're like, this guy is bummer. Like what a bummer. He never injects heroin with us. What a dope, right?

Lindsay S. Hiken (42:50.681)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (43:03.572)
Okay, that's one thing. But if you're like, okay, this guy has to go to bed at eight o'clock because he gets up at four. So we're never going to hang out with them. I think one can take a look at what am I, what am I doing this for? Or it comes back to the goals, right? The values and the goals based on the values and

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:27.002)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Ergo (43:29.194)
Am I doing this to be like this all the time or am I doing this so that occasionally when you know someone wants to, you know, offer me an apple pie that they made, I can't, I can actually accept it gracefully and not be like, I don't eat sugar at all ever. And be a jerk, right? Like understand the context of why you're disciplined.

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:47.737)
Right, right, right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:54.128)
Yes, exactly. That makes a lot of sense and be able to pivot a little bit. think you talked about it already, but the rigidity can get in the way of you being able to change directions when a challenge comes up. You know, I've seen people. It totally, totally. I've seen people pitch a fit during a race because.

Mike Ergo (44:12.908)
Yes.

counterproductive sometimes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (44:23.749)
They were off the, you know, their pace or whatever, or just, and they would quit. I've seen people just quit and it's like, well, this is a hobby, first of all. So why are you freaking out this? You're not a pro. And, and that's that rigidity of like, they were disciplined. The outcome was a certain pace. The fact that they couldn't make that pace made them unable to complete the challenge.

Mike Ergo (44:29.314)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (44:38.114)
Yes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (44:53.365)
And that doesn't look like fun.

Mike Ergo (44:53.686)
Right. Right. Yes. No, no, it doesn't. And it's, I think I'm trying to figure out how to put this concisely, but it's one thing I really am grateful to the military for is instilling just the keep going no matter what, obstacles and variables get thrown in the way, attitude and,

Even translated to I was, was doing this endurance event and we weren't going to make the cutoff. was a team-based event called go rock. And, and I was starting to get a little antsy too. And when another Marine just turned to me, he was doing this with me and he said, yeah, when some you lose some. And I was like, yeah, we are doing this for fun. Aren't we kind of like got me out of the zone, but yeah, that rigidity is tough. If you're so stuck to making it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (45:32.293)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (45:42.34)
No.

Mike Ergo (45:50.574)
Right? And like, let's say you get to the pool and it's supposed to open at six and the person doesn't get there to six oh five, then your perfect schedule needs to be adjusted and people can freak out about that. And so I'm just saying, what, is anybody going to die? Is anybody going to die when this happens? Or can we just maybe have a slightly shorter workout or whatever, whatever the case is, right? Where you're rigid.

Lindsay S. Hiken (45:50.906)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (45:56.475)
you

Lindsay S. Hiken (46:00.292)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (46:06.331)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (46:12.729)
Yeah, right, right. I think sometimes the rigidity makes people unlikable. And, you know, it could be, I would think, a little bit lonely because people start moving away from someone who's too rigid. In general, think it's sort of, I know I do, you know, someone's like incredibly rigid. My desire to

Mike Ergo (46:35.107)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (46:40.225)
hanging with them diminishes pretty quickly.

Mike Ergo (46:43.95)
yeah, there's a bunch of psychological factors there because it comes down to safety too. You know, if something happens, right. And the person you're with can't adjust to it. They're not the safest person to be around and just in general, right? Because if you can't pivot with a situation that's rapidly changing, then you can adapt to new threats of what's going on though. So a lot of reasons for it. We don't have to go down the rabbit hole there, but.

It's a rigid people are not the most fun to hang out with. It's good to be stick to your values. But if you're so rigid that if you, I don't know, if something needs a shift and you can't make that shift, then is you're, you're just, it's, it's ineffective. And you're right. It's major turnoff to hang out with someone like that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (47:20.537)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (47:37.5)
Right. It is ineffective and it also is a major turn off. I was thinking about work in this regard and one of the things I've learned in sobriety is to the goal, know, I can be pretty disciplined with work like I mentioned, but the goal is to be a worker among workers, not to be the, you know, the king or the queen in the office and

Mike Ergo (48:00.384)
huh.

Mike Ergo (48:03.906)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (48:06.595)
when I come across people at work who are rigid like that, who are disciplined and in some ways all, know, I will initially really admire their ability to just be like disciplined and organized. I mean, I'm an accountant, so being disciplined and organized is a thing, you know, in my industry. But.

Mike Ergo (48:21.923)
Yeah.

huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (48:27.993)
when it turns into rigidity, it's like, I don't want to do a project with this person because they suck. They're just up your butt all day about everything. And they have a schedule that may not take into account other people's schedules or other people's workloads.

Mike Ergo (48:37.666)
Right.

Mike Ergo (48:41.664)
Yeah, it's very isolating. It's very isolating, right?

Lindsay S. Hiken (48:46.415)
Yeah, yeah.

My overall goal in life is to help others, but also enjoy life like we're here for a limited amount of time and we're on this weird planet that's just rolling through space. It's a total aside, but I've been looking at a lot of like videos about the universe and I'm like, wow, none of this shit even matters. you know, but yeah, it's, know, to help.

Mike Ergo (49:04.31)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (49:14.133)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Lindsay S. Hiken (49:18.555)
people and into a joy life. trying to temper discipline and not let it spill over into all of the things that we talked about is something that I think is a worthy goal. We have talked about this for 50 minutes basically. And what are your last kind of words on discipline?

Mike Ergo (49:37.95)
huh.

Mike Ergo (49:45.208)
think just to sum it up, know, I would say I would encourage our listeners to find what your values are, write them down. Values are something that are, can, you do like hygiene. Like you, you don't brush your teeth once and you're done for the rest of your life. You do it every day. Right. Hopefully. So values are things you do continuously write down your goals based on your values and.

Lindsay S. Hiken (50:04.901)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (50:15.352)
then decide which parts of your daily activities fit into achieving those goals and which don't and see where you can alter those. Although that may not be fun to get up at five 30 to go work out or whatever it takes or have a diet coke instead of a Coke or you know, things like that, make those adjustments and

Also find the reason you want to achieve your goals based on your values. know, if it's, especially if it's like, I could inspire someone else to do this, that's the pro social reason is the most effective. And then while you are being disciplined, don't be too rigid that nobody wants to hang out with you. Cause then you lose sight of why you're doing this in the first place, most likely.

Lindsay S. Hiken (51:05.403)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (51:11.875)
Right, you lose sight of your values because you're looking at the trees rather than the forest.

Mike Ergo (51:12.11)
You know, there's...

Mike Ergo (51:18.648)
Forest for the trees. Yeah. Yeah. The trees for the forest, whatever it is. Right. But I mean, there's sometimes if you have big goals, you have to make major shifts in life and you might lose some friends along the way. And if that's the case, they might be more drinking buddies and they are friends, or you might find yourself in a new circle of friends. But you know, if, something's really important to you and aligns with your values, go for it. I'd say go for it. And

Lindsay S. Hiken (51:31.13)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (51:36.143)
Right.

Mike Ergo (51:48.45)
your life will shift for sure. But generally, if those goals are based on values that you have for your life at the end of the day, you'll feel good about it and there's a freedom in that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (52:01.434)
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. what I would say about it is the sort of from the perspective of identity and raising the floor. As I mentioned, doing a steamable access helped me build safe self esteem that I did not possess. And so

Mike Ergo (52:22.136)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (52:23.587)
you know, starting small with something that you can actually achieve discipline-wise, making your bed, running for five minutes a day, you know, doing these things that you can do consistently do build that habit, that discipline, but also will build the self-esteem. And I think that that's an important thing.

Mike Ergo (52:31.778)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (52:43.5)
Yes.

Lindsay S. Hiken (52:46.723)
I can get out of pocket and want to do all the stuff at once. And then that's a fail, right? And then I just feel like a failure, you know, and it's not really, really going to work. I'll just say really quickly, the day that I quit drinking for, you know, the day I quit drinking 22 years ago, I wanted to quit drinking, quit doing drugs. I wasn't doing drugs at that point, but I wanted to, you know, not do drugs, quit drinking, quit smoking cigarettes.

Mike Ergo (52:49.87)
Hahaha.

Mike Ergo (52:53.89)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (53:16.035)
and quit eating meat all today. And of course, I wasn't able to execute on all that. And that's why my sponsor was like, how about if we just put our head on the pillow sober today? Let's let's break that down. And that was an esteemable act like that was something I could do. That little bit was a big bit. But, you know, that that consistent bit did build that self-esteem I was looking for. So that's what I would say about this.

Mike Ergo (53:18.606)
Slow. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (53:30.06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (53:37.911)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (53:46.363)
And yeah, listeners, we thank you for coming on this little journey with us. You've confi- sure, sure. Go for it.

Mike Ergo (53:52.398)
Oh, I got one last thing with you, Lindsay. And you, you, you alluded to it with, with talking about your sponsor is that find, I would encourage people to find the people in your own life that are disciplined or doing the things that you'd like to do and, just model after the, some of the things they do. And generally people who are, who are doing well, like to share, you know, their successes and how they got there. Right. So

Lindsay S. Hiken (54:07.172)
Mmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (54:17.54)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (54:21.882)
Right.

Mike Ergo (54:22.222)
Don't be afraid to ask like, how do you, how do you get up in the morning and go to the gym like that? What's, what's your secret? And, uh, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (54:26.937)
Mm-hmm.

Good point. Modeling works for sure. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Someone out there is doing it. man. OK. think it's time.

Mike Ergo (54:34.178)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (54:37.538)
Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Mike Ergo (54:48.738)
I think it's time.

Lindsay S. Hiken (54:50.587)
All right, listeners, thank you for taking this journey with us and we are doing an every other week schedule now. And so we will see you in two weeks. Bye.

Mike Ergo (55:03.522)
Later.