From Trauma to Triumph: Julia Minkstein's Story

Summary
In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, host Lindsay S. Hiken speaks with ultra runner Julia Minkstein about her journey through running, personal challenges, and recovery. Julia shares her experiences with childhood health issues, the impact of COVID on her running, and her journey through trauma and recovery. She discusses the empowering nature of ultra running, the supportive community within the sport, and her aspirations for the future. Julia's story is one of resilience, strength, and the importance of seeking help and support.


Takeaways
Julia started running as a way to cope with uncertainty.
The pandemic allowed Julia to focus on running for herself.
Julia faced significant health challenges growing up, including seizures and celiac disease.
Her experience with trauma led her to find strength in running.
Ultra running became a source of empowerment and community for Julia.
Julia's first ultra marathon was a challenging but transformative experience.
Support from her mother and friends played a crucial role in her journey.
Julia navigated eating disorders and body image issues throughout her life.
She achieved sobriety at a young age, which has positively impacted her life.
Julia encourages others to seek help and hold on through tough times.

Sound bites
"I chose this path to go down."
"I can run a hundred miles."
"There are brighter days ahead."

Keywords
ultra running, mental health, recovery, empowerment, eating disorders, sobriety, personal growth, resilience, community, challenges

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Transcript

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:01.336)
Hello and welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm Lindsay and I am without my co-host Mike today. He is actually in Hawaii, lucky bastard. But I do have a guest, Julia Mingstein, and I'm super excited to hear her story. Julia is an ultra runner. And as you guys know from my recent episodes, I've been really spending a lot of time with ultra runners and interested in doing it myself. My body may not be coming along with me, but.

Mentally, I'm definitely interested in doing it. So I'm excited to hear Julia's story. Hi, Julia. How are you doing?

Julia Minkstein (00:36.324)
I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me on. It's such an honor to be here.

Lindsay S. Hiken (00:40.603)
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Well, tell me a little bit about your background, how you got into running.

Julia Minkstein (00:47.79)
Yeah, weirdly enough, and honestly, looking back on it now, I had no idea that running would be such a huge part of my life, but I have been running for as long as I can remember, but not intentionally. Like anytime I would get in trouble or anytime I had a really big test in school coming up or anytime, like there was anything I wasn't sure about, I would go outside and I would run until that.

feeling of uncertainty kind of wore off. Yeah, weird. And then like looking back, then I started like doing cross country starting in middle school and then that turned into cross country in high school and college. And then it slowly started turning more into ultra running and now I'm 22 and that's kind of where I'm at.

Lindsay S. Hiken (01:18.584)
Huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (01:38.326)
Awesome. That is, I've never heard anyone describe being a child and running just to get rid of like feelings and anxiety in your body. That's actually kind of a cool thing. It's something healthy that you could do. So that's pretty neat. So, okay, so you went, you ran all the way through school and what did you, what was your first, so when did you run like your first maybe half marathon, marathon, those kinds of distances before you got into ultra?

Julia Minkstein (01:42.5)
You

Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (01:52.93)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:07.746)
Was that also like high school, college, something like that?

Julia Minkstein (02:09.572)
That was high school time. During the pandemic, know it's kind of you either love it or you didn't. I loved COVID. I loved that whole time period because there was nothing else to do but run. And I think that's where all of this running kind of took off. I think before COVID, I was just running for other people more like I was trying to achieve something. But then once COVID hit,

And it was like the first time in my life where I really got to be with myself. And I think that's where I learned that like, there's no one else I want to run for but myself.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:47.534)
Yeah, that's that's awesome. I am. I know what you're talking about with COVID. It was a

Julia Minkstein (02:55.15)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (02:57.354)
bad time for society and the world in general, but personally, my partner Josh, he's you know, incredibly introverted and he's a, he races road bikes and gravel bikes and mountain bikes. So he rides a lot. And at the time I was riding quite a bit too. It was a lovely time to just get out there and ride. Work was a little like different, you know, because everyone was like at home now and they didn't really know what they were doing with that. and we loved it. We were in our house together.

Julia Minkstein (03:00.12)
Of course, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (03:11.141)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (03:18.096)
Right.

Julia Minkstein (03:24.142)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (03:27.248)
just kind of hanging out and doing our thing. We loved that period. He would like to go back there without all the death, if he could. So I've heard through the grapevine that you have a bit of a story to tell me, and I know nothing about it, but I've heard it's a good one, and I'm excited to hear it. So have at it.

Julia Minkstein (03:33.52)
Honestly, I'm right there with him, yeah. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (03:46.21)
Yeah.

boy. yeah. So long story short, or I guess long story long, since we have the time here, I was, I kind of grew up in a weird kind of dynamic where I actually had seizures at a really young age and no one knew why I went to doctor after doctor. Like I spent most of my time like growing up in doctor's offices and in different hospitals because no one could figure out.

Lindsay S. Hiken (03:55.832)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (04:18.982)
why my body was having this reaction. then fast forward to eighth grade, we finally got some sort of neurology scan done and it came back that I, was because of celiac disease. So I've actually had an autoimmune my whole life, but I had no idea. And then I just, I mean, you're 13, 14, you look at that and it's like, oh, I'm different. Like all the...

slumber parties and all the like growing up kind of stuff now was like, I'm having to be that kid that packs their own lunch and like to kind of, I just felt on that kind of set me on the outside. felt very vulnerable. and then going into high school as a freshman, I met someone, who took that vulnerability and ran with it. I,

Lindsay S. Hiken (04:51.629)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (05:14.424)
was raped by a lifeguard at 14. He's yeah, so that was my entire, my entire excuse me, my entire high school existence was spent now not in hospitals anymore. Thank goodness I got celiac disease uncontrolled, but now I was meeting with sheriff departments and meeting with detectives and DAs and trying to get him put away. And it was something that I didn't even know.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:17.122)
Hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:33.847)
Hmm.

Julia Minkstein (05:42.822)
I'm like, I don't even know if I want him to be put away. So then that was, I spent four and a half years of my life in court. So my entire high school existence and then my freshman year of college was spent going back and forth between school, cross country. And then I would have to drive over to Redwood city and sit in court and go face to face. And this was all, most of this happened during COVID. So it was, thank goodness.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:47.245)
Hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (05:55.277)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (06:11.416)
most of the time that he wasn't in person in the actual room with me, I was just seeing him over a screen, but just that fear in that like panic. It's like, there is nothing. I don't wish that on my worst. I can't even explain it. Like I've tried so many times. but all through that I would run. I remember actually one of the last court cases we had, I remember just ripping off my heels and just running out of that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (06:14.039)
and

Lindsay S. Hiken (06:20.91)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (06:40.294)
the Redwood City like City Hall down there and just like just running because I literally There's something that came over me that like I didn't want to I could not sit still anymore because I just felt like from the age of 14 where I Couldn't literally couldn't stop it to where I'm at now It feels like my voice was just being ripped out of my body and there was all these grown-ups like trying thinking that they were doing the right thing to stop it, but I was like no one asked me

Lindsay S. Hiken (06:40.366)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (06:51.084)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (07:09.318)
if I was okay or if I wanted this. And so I went to NAU, Northern Arizona University, thinking that I could do the whole college thing and like balance court at the same time. I couldn't. And that was really where all of the grief kind of sunk in for the first time was when I was living alone in Arizona. And I broke.

Lindsay S. Hiken (07:11.5)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (07:32.76)
Hmm.

Julia Minkstein (07:37.218)
was very suicidal. I completely stopped eating. I was diagnosed with anorexia and orthorexia, which is a newer one. It's yeah, obsession with healthy eating. So I just thought that if I could make myself as small as possible, that nothing ever bad would happen to me again. And it's like, again, looking back on that now, it seems so crazy. But that led to me having to drop out of college and go into an eating disorder recovery.

Lindsay S. Hiken (07:42.318)
and

Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (08:07.666)
Um, and that was rock bottom. It was, I, the, all, was back in doctor's offices and it was back to that, trauma of just being like in and out of facilities. Um, I was, they said I was a walking heart attack. Like it was that fear factor of like, you could go down a path and if you keep continuing down this path, you will die like a hundred percent. Or you could wake up and see that you can heal this. Like, and you have to hurt to heal.

Lindsay S. Hiken (08:34.156)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (08:36.39)
And it was the biggest and most hardest pill I've ever had to swallow. But it was that moment that it was just like this glass broke and it was like, wait, I don't want to die. Like I do want to live. And this was, yeah, in 2022 and from 2022 to 2026 where we're at now, it's been this beautifully painful journey to healing into where I'm at now.

And good news is, is after I testified within weeks, he pled guilty. He's 17 years and eight months having to spend his life in a prison facility. And I am safe. I am happy. My story is out there. I no longer feel like it's this burden I have to carry. And every time that I run a new ultra marathon or that I

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:12.492)
Hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:19.939)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:25.485)
and

Julia Minkstein (09:34.808)
It's just like everything I do now is from this place of the utmost love and respect and almost like I am so grateful that I chose this path to go down because my life deserves to have this happy ending that it wouldn't have had if I went the other way. So that's long story long is where I'm at now. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (09:52.223)
Mm-hmm.

Well, it's pretty amazing for 22, I have to say. I'm an old lady in comparison and you're pretty inspirational and grown up, you know, and I think that that's really, really cool. Now, not the reasons why you had to go through with all that is not necessarily great, but at the same time, you know, it's made you into the person like you said that you are now.

Julia Minkstein (10:00.688)
Thank you.

Julia Minkstein (10:07.994)
Thank you.

Julia Minkstein (10:15.874)
Of course, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (10:23.82)
when you were saying you can't describe sort of like what what it's like, I was thinking about a much less traumatic experience I had, but has nonetheless impacted me and my way I move around where I live, which is not very far from you. I'm in downtown, yeah, Haffman Bay. So I had a guy follow me home and he, you know,

Julia Minkstein (10:41.881)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (10:53.942)
It was this whole process where he was behind me and I could feel someone was behind me, but I didn't, I was walking my dog, so I wasn't, I just thought that someone was coming up on me quickly, so I got out of the way. And then he kind of passed me and pretended to be walking down this other road, and so I started walking towards my house, and then I had that weird feeling again, and I turned around he was coming up really quick through this parking lot and.

Julia Minkstein (11:01.84)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (11:17.605)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (11:20.128)
I walked on the other side of the road from my house and he crossed the road but then he just matched my pace, you know what I mean? And when I was finally behind this like large van, he came running around the van and ran up to me. Fortunately for me, he was not, I think he realized I was.

Julia Minkstein (11:25.303)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (11:41.955)
gonna be a big pain in the butt and this was during the day and he, so he kinda looked down and saw my dog and my dog was sniffing him and then I just started yelling at him, you know? And I think because I was about to cause a scene or I was causing a scene, he just decided to go away. But just that without actually even having that experience of what he was.

Julia Minkstein (11:44.096)
You caught on, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (11:54.232)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (12:04.912)
Good, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (12:12.094)
wanting to do. you know, it's like you can tell he wasn't wanting to rob me. I could tell he didn't. There was nothing on. He had a vibe. Just that has changed the way I move through the world. Like, I don't really like my street that I'm on because there's a lot of people that walk down it and I don't, you know, those kinds of things. So the fact that you have gotten yourself to a place where you feel safe and happy and after going through that is just very, very inspirational. And, you know, I hope to.

Julia Minkstein (12:13.614)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (12:18.414)
Yeah, he had different intentions. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (12:26.245)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (12:41.63)
use you as you know, platform to get myself to that point too.

Julia Minkstein (12:46.064)
Thank you. it took it. I mean, it took years and it's like, don't get me wrong. There are some days where it's like you smell the shampoo he used to wear or you like, it's like all the, it just takes one thing to get all these flashbacks. And then it's like, I feel like I'm back to level one and it's just like coming back to that place of like nothing in life is linear. Like I'm to have days where it's like, I can put it so far behind me and I can have

these amazing relationships and I can go out in the world alone and just climb mountains alone and do all the things I want to do. But it, there are days where it's like, I don't want to leave my bed and even leaving the outside world and I live in a very safe neighborhood, but all it takes is that one thing and it just kind of sets you back. And so it's just, it's a huge mental thing, which I'm learning is so as ultra running and it just comes back to like,

What do I feel in my body? Like what is true right now? And what is that story going on in my head? And trying to differentiate between the two is really important.

Lindsay S. Hiken (13:49.261)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (13:53.207)
Right, right. That makes a lot of sense. So to kind of connect it to ultra running, did you start doing the long distance sort of in response to this or was it just separate and you started ultra running just sort of in COVID and it wasn't really in response to this?

Julia Minkstein (14:13.648)
Yeah. So like you were saying about being followed home, I've also had weird instances on the coastal trail, just early in the mornings or like late at night when I have time to fit in those runs, there was just like weird, like I was either getting cat called or videotape. Like there was just weird things which kind of put me back in that like I'm triggered. I'm not safe here. So I started going up into any mountain I could find because the thought

of a man versus the thought of a mountain lion, I'm like, those two weren't equal and I much rather choose the latter. So I would go and I would go for hours and I would just hang up out there and like, I wouldn't even be running the whole time. I would just be going to where there was no one else and I couldn't see anyone else and it was just me and I loved that. And then one of my bosses found out, she was like, you really run a lot. And so she gave me this book.

Lindsay S. Hiken (14:43.382)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Julia Minkstein (15:09.978)
Born to Run and I ate that book up. Like I've read it like four times now, but that kind of was like, wow. And at the time, like being in court, was like, everything just felt so scary. Like obviously ultra running it. I know it's a male dominated sport. It's still a male dominated sport. So just the thought of that, I was like, yeah, no thank you. but like little did I know, like being one of the only women to tow that start line is like,

Lindsay S. Hiken (15:11.173)
huh.

Lindsay S. Hiken (15:31.042)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (15:39.29)
the most confident boosting, like it makes me just feel like such a badass just getting up there and like owning that spot on the line. So yeah, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (15:41.454)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (15:48.791)
Mm hmm. That's that's awesome. And it is a male dominated sport. I do feel like the vibes are pretty good. I'm sure there's good and bad in there. But the vibes are pretty good with these these ultra runners. Yeah, it does help quite a bit.

Julia Minkstein (15:59.334)
They're amazing. Yeah.

It helps a lot. Yeah. And it's like everyone I've asked, because I've had with the trail running specifically, like I've done races where like you do crossover snow and like, obviously I didn't grow up in a like climate that has snow. And so any question that I felt was like, this is a stupid question. I'm going to get laughed at people just took it in and answered it completely and fully in a way that made sense. And like, I've gotten so many book recommendations.

all the Facebook groups about ultrarunning, everyone is just so kind. mean, sometimes you get those people that are wanting to throw daggers, but for the most part, it's such a loving and welcoming community that I wish everyone could be a part of.

Lindsay S. Hiken (16:36.739)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (16:45.582)
Yeah, yeah, me too. I haven't gone long yet and I'm not fast, but I do like hanging out with trail runners and ultra runners because of the community. I just started running with a group a few episodes ago. I had I had a guy named Raul on the on the podcast and he's an ultra runner. And he

Julia Minkstein (16:54.382)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (17:06.276)
Okay.

Lindsay S. Hiken (17:08.768)
invited me to run with his group which is the Parisima Trail Runners. run on Sundays. They meet at the, have you been there with them at all?

Julia Minkstein (17:13.548)
Yeah, I've been they've done one on like a mid week in the morning. So I work all day Sunday, but I've gone to those ones and they are such a fun time. So fun. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (17:24.684)
Yeah, these guys are great. Yeah, so I've been running with them a little bit and we ran on Sunday in the torrential downpour. We actually ran at Edgewood Park instead of Prisma, but it was really fun. mean, I was immediately so wet that I was like, well, this is great because I don't have to worry about mud or puddles. It doesn't matter. I'm soaking. And they were so kind. I was like, don't wait for me. I know this park really well. And they kept like...

Julia Minkstein (17:32.356)
Okay. yeah.

Julia Minkstein (17:40.708)
Yeah, exactly. doesn't, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (17:49.359)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (17:50.347)
regrouping and I'm like you guys and they're like no no no it's just fun you know and so just a really great group of people. Tell me about some of your races you've done and kind of like what were some of your favorite moments?

Julia Minkstein (17:52.206)
Yeah, they do that. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (17:59.554)
Yeah, and that's it.

Julia Minkstein (18:04.71)
Yeah, I just my favorite and first hundred miler I did was the high lonesome 100 back in July in the Sawatch range of the Colorado Rocky Mountains, which yeah, everyone I've talked to is like you really picked a really difficult race to start out with as your first hundred. And honestly, that is kind of my personality is like I there is an easy route and there's a hard route and I will always

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:17.397)
wow.

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:23.246)
and

Julia Minkstein (18:34.074)
whether I'm conscious of it or not choose the hard route. It's just my nature. and I can't tell you the amount of people I met at that race that I am still talking to every single day is incredible. And it's like, that was one of my races, like a dream race. I literally, I applied to it because you have to go through the application and the lottery. Then you have to call it, but there's so much stuff that goes into it. And I was like,

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:47.467)
That's great.

Lindsay S. Hiken (18:56.546)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (19:00.602)
There's no thinking there's no way I'm to get in. Like I'm just going to apply just for fun. Like no harm in that. I sent in my application. I'm one of the first people to get accepted into it. And I'm like, I call my people. I'm like, well, like I'm doing like I'm in like this could be like a once like there's been people trying to get into this race for years. So I was like, I kind of just all like put all my eggs into one basket. I said, we're doing this and we, and I did it and

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:04.13)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:09.006)
Lindsay S. Hiken (19:17.942)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:24.118)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (19:28.998)
It was 36 hours straight and 23,000 feet of elevation gain. Yeah, yeah, it was a lot. So.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:30.926)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:34.306)
Wow, that's a lot. That's a ton. it's, mean, I'm sure it's already at altitude,

Julia Minkstein (19:43.43)
Yeah, we didn't drop below. I think like the start line was at like 4,000, but other than that, like on average, we stayed about around 10,000. So it was, I never felt my heart beat that fast. And I was like, wow, it feels like it's going to jump right out of my chest. But it was one of, I've like experienced hallucinating for the first time. I experienced like such low lows, but such high highs within like minutes of each other.

Lindsay S. Hiken (19:49.39)
Yeah, that's pretty high. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:04.3)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (20:13.254)
And it was just, and anytime like I thought I couldn't do it, there was someone, I mean, we call them trail angels. Like there was just someone right around the next corner being like, no, actually you do have this. And I was right as I crossed the start line, like there was people yelling, they're like, you, were the youngest finisher and you're in your female. And so it just opened so many, like I have people reaching out for, yeah, interviews, like people are wanting to talk to me now, which is.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:33.837)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (20:41.688)
a dream come true because I do have a story and I do love to talk and I just it's like yeah, I'm so grateful.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:44.802)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (20:50.54)
That's that's amazing. And did you have pacers and things like that? Or were you?

Julia Minkstein (20:55.232)
Yeah, weirdly enough, I had this pacer who I met on Facebook, like on a Facebook ultra running group in Colorado. And I was like, just if anyone's interested, like I need a pacer for high lonesome. It's my first one. I'm like, I cry a lot. And this guy reached out and he was like, he was like, I'm a therapist. He's like, I got you. And he's like, I'm also cry a lot. Like, I'll walk you through this. And he was with me for about 40 miles of the of the last half of that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:09.524)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (21:24.879)
yeah. And my mom, I can't forget about her. My mom surprised me out there and helped crew the whole thing. which was amazing. I can't thank her enough. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:25.08)
Great.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:31.51)
Wow, that's so cute. That's amazing. She must be so proud of you and so happy about how things have turned out for you. You know, just feeling.

Julia Minkstein (21:41.85)
Yeah, no, she's the best. She's been on the sidelines for through that whole thing. And it's just amazing that this is the outcome of it for both of us.

Lindsay S. Hiken (21:51.326)
And so I want to circle back to a little bit about the eating and the challenges with eating. definitely, I've shared on this show, I have experienced some of the similar things. Definitely the orthorexia. I didn't know what it was called for all these years that I was doing all of these different restrictive diets. Like any restrictive diet you can see on Instagram that's like, you shouldn't eat.

Julia Minkstein (21:57.381)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (22:05.083)
Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (22:17.6)
whatever it is, X, Y, from vegan to like only eating meat, you know what mean? And everything in between, whatever healthy, I've done it in an attempt to perfect something that's not gonna be perfect and doesn't need to be perfect. So I relate to that, but.

Julia Minkstein (22:19.694)
Yeah, so many. Yeah.

Right. Everything in between. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (22:29.444)
Yeah, I get that.

Julia Minkstein (22:33.732)
Right, doesn't need, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (22:40.578)
I wanted to hear a little bit about your experience with that now with running, because I know endurance sports can definitely be a place where, at least for me, can be a little triggering. So I have to kind of watch out for comparison to other people. this person looks really, I bet they're running faster because they're thinner. I think things like that, crazy, crazy stuff like that. But how is this working for you?

Julia Minkstein (22:49.445)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (22:58.638)
Right. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (23:04.714)
Yeah, so the whole, and of course, like I am, there's this whole beauty standard with women. I grew up in a household where my mom kind of always wanted to be smaller growing up and I look a lot like her. I'm the same height as her. So I think internally, I just thought, well, if you don't like yourself, then why should I like myself?

Lindsay S. Hiken (23:27.106)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (23:28.866)
And so I remember from an early age she was always talking about she liked how her thighs touched and she was sure stomach was flatter and like there was just all these like little micro kind of things that she put out there in that I took with and I didn't realize it then but I started to get super insecure and Then with that being paired with the sexual assault pay being paired with in high school

We had one of our like they hired like a new cross-country coach like halfway through and thank goodness she was fired, but she would tell the girls like the smaller you are the faster you'll be and all of those together put this thing into my head was like my worth is determined by how Stick-thin I could be and so just like with all the ultra running books I read and all the people I follow I started following people

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:08.984)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (24:27.684)
that would say things like nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. And like that was my mantra. And I think when I finally, when I moved to Arizona and I was living out there on my own, there was no one that had eyes on me. And it was beautiful because I could slip through the cracks. And it wasn't until I sent my family like a picture of me on like at this Halloween party where they're like, you are stick thin, like you need to come home. And

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:30.508)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:45.518)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (24:53.634)
Mm. Mm.

Julia Minkstein (24:57.432)
It's been this kind of weird thing since then, because obviously like this like whole skinny trend is like making its way back into society right now as we speak. And I'm like looking at these people and I've had to do a big like social media detox of all these people I follow because it's just like they never say like you're never fully recovered. You're always going to be in recovery. And so I just have to make sure that I put up a little bit extra protection to make sure that I never go back to that extreme place.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:05.795)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (25:26.79)
that I was in, because that was detrimental to everything, as I'm sure you know. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:27.886)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, the health and it's weird because I feel like I had at a young age like you're experiencing with diet in college and things when I didn't need to. But and just thinking I just needed to be smaller no matter what size. I've always felt that my whole life. No matter what size I need to be smaller.

Julia Minkstein (25:44.709)
Right.

Julia Minkstein (25:51.066)
Right, yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (25:56.111)
the bar moves because as you age, you know, things change in your body. And so I got to a point, you know, when I hit my mid forties, where it was like all my hormones were changing. And, and I remember thinking, if I was just the size I was when I was in my early twenties, I would be happy. And it's like, I wasn't happy then I wasn't happy at that size. You know, there's no, there's no size that's going to make me happy because I couldn't be small enough.

Julia Minkstein (26:07.214)
Right, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (26:14.938)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (26:21.839)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (26:23.018)
you know, is going through menopause. And I just have had this experience in the last maybe a couple of years where I would regularly look in the mirror and just be like, I hate myself because I gained weight, you know, with menopause and a lot of the weights come off now. but just the fact that I gained a little bit was like enough to trigger this sort of like self loathing and

Julia Minkstein (26:33.914)
Yeah, I get that. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (26:45.2)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (26:46.254)
I was like, oh my God, it's still there. It's been there this whole time. It's still there. Those thoughts that I had when I was younger that were just been there. I'm in my 50s and I'm still having them. it's, it's, you're right.

Julia Minkstein (26:51.33)
Yeah. Right.

Julia Minkstein (26:56.992)
Yeah. And you can think they're gone. You can think like you're so far past it and it just takes like that one wrong glance in the mirror or as you walk by a store window and it's like, wow, I'm right back there.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:04.718)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well, I'm glad you're healthy. And I know that I've heard that with celiac, you have to be very meticulous with your food. I don't know if that's true or not. No.

Julia Minkstein (27:14.062)
Yeah, I... yeah.

Julia Minkstein (27:22.234)
That was the other thing. I'm like, that didn't help at all. Yeah. Cause it was like, there's like, they put me on like this FODMAP diet and there was like different things that like lower my inflammation rates were super high and like, have to heal your gut. And so there was just all this talk and I was like, you also know, like I'm a teenage girl at that time. I'm like, all this like diet talk is not, is doing more harm than it is good. and I just noticed that with celiac, I like got super sensitive to almost every food.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:29.112)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (27:38.733)
Right.

Julia Minkstein (27:51.98)
like it wasn't just gluten I had to give up like there was just so many things and then I think during that same time period like I was everyone I knew was drinking and experimenting with different like drugs and I just wanted to fit into that so badly and I I mean flash forward now like I've just hit my three-year sober anniversary so like there's been so much in that time period thank you that I've just been like wow like I went through the wringer a little bit there

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:06.222)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:13.166)
Congrats.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:20.398)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, congrats on getting sober early in life. That's really, really good. I waited till I was 33. And so not old, but but but you know, but I did damage between 20 and 33. You know, I did quite a bit of damage.

Julia Minkstein (28:21.338)
Like it's crazy.

Julia Minkstein (28:25.712)
Thank you. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (28:30.67)
Okay, yeah. No, not at all.

Julia Minkstein (28:38.542)
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (28:43.45)
So, you know, but it's amazing whenever I see someone who's really young who gets sober, it's like, their whole adult life, they have their whole adult life ahead of them. And it can be this like beautiful sober life and how amazing how amazing that is.

Julia Minkstein (28:51.898)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (28:56.962)
I'm so happy to hear you say that because so many people have so many different opinions in that area. Like you're going to regret that. Like you only lived through your twenties once. I'm like, yeah, but I hit that mark very early on where I feel like I did all that and it wreaked havoc on my body.

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:01.07)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:05.133)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:13.422)
Mm hmm. hmm. It didn't. That's the thing. think people who so people who don't have addiction probably associate drinking or something with this like fun where they don't they don't it doesn't ruin their life when they do it. They have a couple of drinks and like they hang out. And so to them, it's like, well, this is like fun. We go out and we do whatever. Like my daughter is she just turned 30. She's not an alcoholic. Thank God. And she and her friends have this. You know, they plan these big parties. They have themes and they do all this stuff.

Julia Minkstein (29:24.09)
Right. Right. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (29:32.036)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (29:43.457)
And they might drink a little bit too much or not, it's like, it doesn't really, it's not ruining anyone's life. That's not the point of the party. My drinking, the point, the point was to drink. You know what I mean? I really care about the party, right? And there's really nothing that you're going to miss though, you know, because you can still do all the fun parts of the thing without the, that haze of like, in fact, you know, you miss out, I think when you are drinking, there's like a haze there.

Julia Minkstein (29:44.442)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (29:50.756)
Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I understand that. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (30:05.85)
Right. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (30:12.622)
Well, yeah, and like two things with that, the best part of it is, is that my like confidence and my social skills and like my like street smart sense, like all of that is now way better than it would have been if I was like using drinking as like this mask of like, like self worth. But and then I can go out and have a good time and then I can wake up that next morning and go run or go do what I want to do without a massive hangover.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:29.88)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:38.241)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (30:42.234)
Right. Right, right. No, exactly. It's such a relief. Sometimes I see people my age who are still struggling or older who are still struggling and they've been doing this for like 60 years, 50 years. They've been living this lifestyle and they've missed out on a lot of life and also just the idea of being at a certain age and having that hangover. mean, what you can't really function, you know, definitely not going for a run.

Julia Minkstein (30:42.382)
or the urge to like keep drinking. So it's a win-win. Yeah.

Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (30:57.467)
Yeah.

Right.

Julia Minkstein (31:08.102)
No, no, not at all. No, I know, I know.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:11.244)
I did have a period when I was sort of hitting bottom with alcohol where I was working out and or running. I either was in the gym or on a run every single day. I would like smoke cigarettes in the parking lot of the YMCA over on the peninsula and then go in and do my workout, which I'm sure these poor people were probably like, ugh, the smell of smoke off me. But it was sort of like, well,

Julia Minkstein (31:24.548)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (31:28.622)
Wow, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (31:33.219)
Yeah, no, that's...

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:36.598)
I don't have a problem with alcohol. I'm doing, I go to work, I work out, you if I do all this stuff and it was miserable the whole time, because I was hung over the whole time or I was worried about when I was going to get to have my next drink, you know, one or the other.

Julia Minkstein (31:40.9)
Right. Yeah. Of course.

Julia Minkstein (31:48.696)
Yeah, and we just tell our each, well, we just tell ourselves like these stories that it's like to make it okay, like to justify what we're doing until yeah, you do eventually hit that breaking point where it's like, something's got to give. And it's probably the vice that we're relying on in order to not feel what it is we need to feel to get past it.

Lindsay S. Hiken (31:56.504)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:03.278)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:09.062)
Mm Yeah, if we're lucky, some people, you know, just keep on keeping on and it's it's it's I have a lot of empathy for them because I can't imagine, know, the bottom I hit in my early 30s would have been doubly bad if I was hitting it in my 50s. You know, the extra damage I could have could have re but.

Julia Minkstein (32:11.758)
Yeah, and that's true.

Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (32:29.944)
Right. Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (32:34.51)
Okay, so how did you, I want to hear about your very first ultra distance race. Like what was that like and where was it and how did it go?

Julia Minkstein (32:40.738)
gosh. Yeah. And then I actually started, I signed up for this, was called the Wild Wild West. It's been discontinued, but it was in Lone Pine and you actually go to like the base, like Mount Whitney base. And then it just takes you all up into those, like the Alabama Hills. takes you all up in that like Eastern Sierras. And it was 50 miles.

was in second place overall for the entire race until I realized I don't know how to read a map. And at mile 37, the like trail like veered off like very narrowly. So like on the map, it looked like one line. And I was like, I don't know which way to go. And I could see people like behind me, like probably like a mile back. And I was like, I need to make up my mind like right now. So I went left five miles out of the way.

Lindsay S. Hiken (33:13.975)
Nice.

Julia Minkstein (33:39.078)
when I should have gone right, it bumped me back to like ninth place. So I would have been on the podium, like I would have been in all this, like it would have been like a first like huge win for me. Like was so proud. And then after that, my spirits kind of plummeted, but I finished third female overall in the two girls that were ahead of me were, I'm still friends with them now. Like they were like, you have a gift. Cause I was like, this is one and done. this.

Lindsay S. Hiken (33:40.405)
no...

Lindsay S. Hiken (33:49.612)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (34:07.578)
This sucks. I hate this. Like I was so that one was like, this is not fun. And they're like, no, like, we know when we see it, like they're like, you need to sign up for another one like right now. And so that kind of like was playing in the back of my mind. And then the race director, I didn't realize he's like this kind of like famous guy. His name is like Joshua Holmes. And I still follow him on social media and keep up with him. But he was like, no, like you have a gift like

Lindsay S. Hiken (34:28.526)
Hmm.

Julia Minkstein (34:36.07)
I don't, he was like, don't know what you're, what's going on in your mind right now, but he was like, you, need to keep up with this. Like I'll see you at the next one. I was like, okay, dude, like just kind of brushing them off. And then surely enough, like a couple of days later, like I woke up with that itch. And I was like, that wasn't so bad. I'm going to go for a hundred. And then that's where kind of the, application process for high loans, some started and, and here we are. Hundreds are my favorite distance now. So would you look at that? Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (34:43.244)
Lindsay S. Hiken (34:52.022)
Right.

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:01.101)
Wow, that's so great. So great. I want to run something long, but I don't want to run 100 because I'm afraid of the hallucinations and, you know, all of that stuff. What happened for you there with the hallucinations?

Julia Minkstein (35:11.382)
Yeah, I still gotta figure that one out. Yeah. Yeah, that was weird.

Julia Minkstein (35:19.142)
weirdly enough and this could go back to like trauma stuff, but I Imagined there was weirdly enough. I imagine there was a sheep following me and I kept telling my pacer I was like we got to go like it's it's following me and like I that's what I kept screaming like I was scared like something and there's no sheep up there like it was completely pulled out of thin air and for me I Don't really do I don't do caffeine at all. And so I didn't

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:38.634)
All right.

Julia Minkstein (35:48.6)
really experiment with caffeine. I was just going to go the whole thing, just awake, no caffeine, because I thought I could. I couldn't. I kept falling asleep starting at like 2 a.m. and I would fall asleep and then wake back up and I would fall asleep and wait. And so I while running, like just just going with it with eyes closed and turns out and then once I was like, this is getting really dangerous because we were on a single track where like both sides you're going to fall.

Lindsay S. Hiken (35:54.487)
Mm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (36:04.12)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (36:15.238)
to your death basically. And he was in my pacer was like, you need to take this like caffeine pill. And he was like, you need to take it now. Like this is getting pretty dangerous. Also to paint the scene, was like we were in lightning storms, like wind was extreme. We were above tree line. Like we were kind of in a weird like moment. We were like, I think nine miles one way from an aid station 12 from another aid station. So we were just smack dab in the middle. And he was like, you gotta like, you gotta move and we gotta get you down. So I took that caffeine pill and literally like,

Lindsay S. Hiken (36:15.397)
Lindsay S. Hiken (36:28.738)
Hmm.

Julia Minkstein (36:45.124)
And this could be the hallucination talking, but like within a second, I was good to go. We were flying down that mountain now. So, but the hallucination part for that, like time being, I don't know how long it was, but like that was, it was really scary. It was. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (36:50.154)
Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (37:00.089)
Oh, yeah, I'm sure. I have a friend who does a lot of really long distance. know, she's been on the show 200 milers, that kind of thing. And she always has things running next to her, you know, through the trees and stuff that aren't there. She's like, OK. So I'm afraid of that part, but I would like to do a 50 miler. think that's what I.

Julia Minkstein (37:11.952)
That's amazing.

Julia Minkstein (37:18.904)
Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, yeah.

Julia Minkstein (37:27.824)
The 50s are fun because it's like you wake up with sunrise and then you finish by the time sun sets. You're good to go. You shower, you go to bed. Those are so nice. Yeah, the hundreds are just like, it's just so weird. And honestly, I think for this first, this last one I did was like, I was trying to prove something to myself like ever since the sexual assault. I was like, I know I'm strong. And I know what I'm capable of. And I'm like, if I...

Lindsay S. Hiken (37:34.99)
Exactly. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (37:57.808)
can like sit on a stand in a room full of strangers and answer all these god awful questions that I shouldn't have to answer in front of someone in handcuffs in an orange jumpsuit. Like I can run a hundred miles. So like that's, and I don't know if that's healthy, but that's what I kind of compare everything to. Like when I go to a work interview, when I like go to a podcast interview, it's like, I am scared, but I've been more scared before and I've done it and I've gotten through it and I'm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:05.037)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:11.63)
Mm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (38:23.874)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And did you have a feeling of like, kind of proving that to yourself when you cross the finish line with the 100 miles that you are strong and you can accomplish the extra things that you might not have?

Julia Minkstein (38:26.618)
here to tell that story now.

Julia Minkstein (38:40.774)
Yeah. Yeah. And there's, there's a video too, where it's just like, I cross that finish line. And it's like, there just everyone around me is just like, ecstatic. And it's like, I don't I didn't know any single person in that crowd except my mom and now my pacer. And it's just like, everyone was just cheering. And it was just like this, like for me, like I was so confused. And it was just such a beautiful thing. And like I ran right. It's the one thing I've always done since I was a little kid is like,

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:03.362)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (39:10.246)
My mom's so supportive. always comes to any of my races, matter how small. And I always run into her arms crying. Like it's just this huge like thing. And I'm like, I'm 22 now. I've been doing this forever. And it's just like that happened. I like ran right into her arms and I was like, I'm done now. We can go home. So yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (39:17.847)
Lindsay S. Hiken (39:23.95)
That's amazing. That's amazing. I when I did Iron Man running down the finishing shoot, I had the feeling that you're describing of like, I am

tough, I can do hard things. There's more that I can accomplish than what I think I can sometimes that I think I can accomplish, you know, and it was a very empowering feeling to do a challenge that's that's long like that that's big like that. And I love that feeling. It's so it's like it's someone was saying it's type two fun where it's fun after you're done.

Julia Minkstein (39:42.779)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (39:55.216)
Right, yeah.

It's such a good feeling.

Julia Minkstein (40:04.59)
Yes, I have heard that. Yeah. Which is so true. And it's like even like the after like the week after an ultra marathon or like a huge race like that, like I would love to do an Ironman one day. It's just like this, this high that I like I'm on cloud nine, where it's just like, I just feel like I'm floating and everything is good. And everything is silly and happy. And it's just like, I love that feeling. That is just such an it like you worked so hard. Like for that last

Lindsay S. Hiken (40:28.984)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (40:33.094)
for High Lonesome 100, I dedicated eight months of my life to just training and eating proper, like every, like no socializing. I really, mean, I walked in more than I should have, but, and then to finish it and to complete it and then to just have that break after was like the best thing in the world.

Lindsay S. Hiken (40:52.238)
Yeah, that sounds yeah, love that feeling. Absolutely. Absolutely love that. So what do you have? Do you have anything scheduled or that you want to do in 2026 in terms of your running?

Julia Minkstein (40:55.384)
Yeah, so it's so amazing.

Julia Minkstein (41:05.525)
Yeah, I am running I just got accepted into the Leona 100 or the Leona divide 100. It's in Southern California and it is a Western States qualifier. So that will be really exciting. And then I am doing there is hopefully I'm waiting to find out if I get into it but the UTMB Hoka

Lindsay S. Hiken (41:16.59)
great.

Julia Minkstein (41:30.31)
Um, in it's in October and that is the UTMB world series qualifier. So I have two really big races if I get into both, which I'm hoping I have a really good shot. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (41:40.079)
Awesome. That's great. How exciting. And where's the UTMB? Where did you say it is?

Julia Minkstein (41:43.93)
So yeah, it's in a big bear, California. So both of them are in California, which is amazing. I love that.

Lindsay S. Hiken (41:49.617)
yeah. Instagram has been shoving that race in my face every time I'm on social media Instagram is. I'm like, I'm not ready for that. But thank you for showing it to me. That's funny. It looks it looks like it's I think it's beautiful down there. And it looks like it'd be a fun, fun race to do.

Julia Minkstein (41:54.904)
Yeah, that's how it got me. Yeah. Yeah.

Right, exactly. Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (42:08.984)
It looks and it's like that's such a nice time of the year where it's like it's not going to cook me to death, but it's also not going to be freezing me to death. So it should be perfect. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (42:11.479)
Mm-hmm.

Right, right, right, exactly. I think so, I think so. So what else, if anything, you want to share with people who are listening who are either thinking about running or who may be going through some traumatic experience right now?

Julia Minkstein (42:20.912)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (42:31.608)
Yeah, my biggest thing that I could tell anyone listening is that and this sounds so cliche, like if someone told me this in my like worst time, I would probably tell them to go far, far away from me. But there are brighter days ahead. And if you stick with what if you just stick with it, even in like the worst of my worst, like I knew I was going down a rabbit hole that

Lindsay S. Hiken (42:45.772)
Yeah.

Julia Minkstein (43:01.612)
might be unreturnable. But if you just hold on for a little bit longer, like there will either be a breaking point or a turning point and you will spend the rest of your life living in that appreciation for coming out on the other side. Not to say that you're coming out on the other side unscathed, like there are scars, there are bruises, like there's all that, but

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:23.491)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (43:30.406)
to, I think that just gives me more appreciation and gratitude for the life that I live and the life that I want to lead because it's like, I know what darkness feels like. I know what it's like to literally be so limp, like you can't even get out of bed or be terrified to go to bed with the lights off. Like I know both of those sides, but to not give up and to be resilient and

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:36.878)
.

Lindsay S. Hiken (43:46.045)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (43:57.222)
to not be afraid to ask for help. think that's one of the biggest things that I gave myself was I finally admitted, I was like, I cannot do this alone. It's just made me who I am today and it just left me with so much outlook on life and everything I do now, like I want to pay that forward and I want to help those people that were in a similar situation.

Lindsay S. Hiken (44:00.654)
Mm.

Lindsay S. Hiken (44:05.794)
Mm-hmm.

Julia Minkstein (44:25.112)
as I was or that are just struggling to see the will to continue on this life that we're living on this planet.

Lindsay S. Hiken (44:34.904)
That's beautiful. I really appreciate you saying that. And I appreciate you coming out and sharing your story. That was fantastic. My friend who introduced us and said, she's got a story to tell, undersold it. You know what I mean? She definitely undersold it. So I really appreciate you coming on the show. listeners, if you like this episode or any of our episodes, please share it with a friend that helps the show grow and.

Julia Minkstein (44:37.338)
Thank you.

Julia Minkstein (44:43.002)
Thank you so much.

Julia Minkstein (44:47.748)
Yes, Karen, thank you so much. Yeah.

Lindsay S. Hiken (45:04.61)
You never know who you might be helping by doing that. And we will talk to you guys next week. Bye.

Julia Minkstein (45:12.88)
Thank you.