Shay Eskew: What the Fire Ignited

Summary

In this inspiring interview, Shay Eskew shares his journey from a traumatic childhood accident to becoming a multiple Ironman finisher. He discusses the power of resilience, the importance of perspective, and how he balances family life with his athletic pursuits.

Keywords

Shay Eskew, Ironman, resilience, perspective, family balance

Takeaways

• Resilience is built through overcoming adversity.
• Perspective can transform challenges into opportunities.
• Balancing family and personal goals is crucial.
• Humor can be a powerful coping mechanism.
• Surround yourself with positive influences.
• Live as if tomorrow is no guarantee.
• Commit to doing the hard work always.
• Embrace the suck and find joy in the journey.
• Every interaction can be meaningful.
• Kindness and understanding go a long way.

-Find Shay's book here

-Connect with Shay

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Transcript

Mike Ergo (00:01.613)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co-host Mike along with Lindsay. Lindsay, how are you this evening?

Lindsay Hiken (00:08.985)
Hello, I'm doing pretty well. If you're looking at this on YouTube, you can probably see I'm pointing right now to, um, behind me to my jury duty, little, little invitation that I just got. So looking forward to little jury duty, or maybe I'll get lucky and they won't call me in, which has happened. I don't even want to say it because I don't want to jinx myself, but I've never, I've always not had to go in to jury duty. You know, you call in early and then they tell you whether it's

Mike Ergo (00:35.405)
Yo, you're gonna get picked this time for sure then.

Lindsay Hiken (00:38.593)
I know I just like burst some wood I can knock on. Other than that, I'm doing pretty well. Started running as we've talked about and yesterday I did a nine mile hike. The day before I ran four miles so I'm feeling pretty good. How are you doing?

Mike Ergo (00:57.911)
I'm doing well. I'm running as well. So along there with you. Yeah. yeah. Getting back at it, getting back at it. So, out to, I'll do this marathon in a few weeks and then away we go with training for Ironman 70.3 Oceanside. So I'm looking forward to that. And, tonight we have a special guest, a friend of mine I've known for a few years and

Lindsay Hiken (00:57.943)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (00:58.892)
That's impressive.

Mike Ergo (01:24.345)
multiple Ironman World Championship finisher, author, just all around awesome dude who's gonna tell us his story. Shay Askew, Shay welcome to our show. How have you been?

Shay Eskew (01:38.946)
Well, first, thank you guys for having me tonight. I've been great, honestly, can't complain. Keep my head above water. As you know, this day and time, that's the name of the game, right? Just make it to the next day and that's a success.

Mike Ergo (01:49.4)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (01:50.809)
Yeah, absolutely. I'm interested to hear a little bit about your background, how you got into the sport of triathlon.

Mike Ergo (01:53.015)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (01:57.027)
So

Shay Eskew (02:04.206)
Sure. You know, I think like many of us, at least most people I know, I think Mike's probably in the same boat. It's you don't really seek out to get into it. It kind of draws you into it. For me, it happened back in 2008. I remember distinctly I was working downtown Atlanta in a big high rise and every day I'd get there in the mornings. Like most guys was focused on chest and biceps, right? Wanted to work on looking good in a t-shirt.

Mike Ergo (02:15.768)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (02:33.966)
I I preface this, was about 30 pounds heavier than what I am now. Time I was 33 and this older guy, like 65, comes up to me, barrel chested, military, crew cut. And he goes, hey tough guy. And I said, you talking to me? He goes, yeah, I'm talking to you. He goes, why don't you come in here at my boot camp class? Just me and a bunch of ladies. Shouldn't be anything for a guy like you with all your muscles. And I should have saw it, right? He was completely setting me up. And I'm like,

Mike Ergo (02:34.041)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (03:01.817)
you

Shay Eskew (03:03.17)
Whatever, dude. I'm going to show this old timer what he's in for, right? And literally I walk in, true to form, it's all women. Only guy in there. And they're all just kind of giggling because they know what's coming. 10 minutes into the workout, I'm gassed. I'm literally in tears because I had no core, right? Like I could bench press and do curls, but couldn't do any kind of core. Anyway, this guy completely embarrassed me. Went home, told my wife I just got

My butt handed to me by a 65 year old man. And I said, I don't think he knows what he's done. It's on, right? So the next day I come back and I'm in this class every day for six weeks, lost 20 pounds. Come to find out this guy was one of the original iron men from 1978. One of the finishers. He's also a Marine drill sergeant. He had done the iron man again when he's 62. He was not your average 65 year old man.

Lindsay Hiken (03:53.121)
Mike Ergo (04:02.937)
Yeah, I bet.

Lindsay Hiken (04:03.373)
Right, right.

Shay Eskew (04:04.499)
During this time, I'm getting my butt back in the fighting shape. He gets diagnosed with H4 pancreatic.

Lindsay Hiken (04:09.977)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (04:13.964)
And so he and I started commiserating, talking about how unfair life is. He's like, Shay, I've done everything that the good book says. Served my country, one wife, raised my kids, loved my country. Now I'm going to die in a few months. said, Henry, Hey, I was eight years old, set a fire by a neighbor's kid. Like I'd get it right. Shit happens. And during this relationship,

really came to respect the man who he was and right before we lost him the group of six of us said we'd we'd do the next big triathlon to honor him and that was a half iron man or iron man 70.3 we did the race all of us were all celebrating that night toasting Henry and somebody goes let's do the same race twice four months from today which is going to be the full iron man same course

Mike Ergo (04:52.856)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (05:10.904)
but you do it twice. And so I went home that night and signed up. Nobody else did, right? And I was like, well, I'm in, right? all I know. And so literally the day before the race, I ran into Henry, the Marine who passed away. I ran into his daughter. She said, Shay, you know, daddy's going to be watching you tomorrow. I said, yeah, I know that. She says, you know, this is the one year anniversary of him passing away.

Lindsay Hiken (05:16.047)
wow.

Mike Ergo (05:38.807)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (05:40.59)
And hadn't even occurred to me. just kind of went with the moment, felt led to do it right to honor this great man. And Mike knows like once you've put in the training and once you've crossed that finish line, you feel invincible. You're like, what else in life can I do? How can I feel this every single day of my life? Right. And so that's where that started that journey. I've been in now 17 years. I've 55 Ironman, Ironman 70.3 races.

Mike Ergo (05:43.033)
you

Mike Ergo (05:55.563)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (06:10.627)
Wow, that's a lot. That's a lot.

Mike Ergo (06:13.709)
Yeah, that's an insane amount.

Shay Eskew (06:13.952)
there.

Lindsay Hiken (06:16.877)
That is an insane amount and I want to get back to that, but I don't want to just sort of brush over something that you said, which was that when you were eight, you were on fire from a neighbor or something along those lines. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?

Shay Eskew (06:35.17)
Yeah, not at all. I believe through sharing is kind of how we all overcome adversity. But when I was eight, my mom had asked me to warn my neighbors about an aggressive yellow jackets nest they had in their yard. These yellow jackets had swarmed my entire bicycle the day before. And so I recruited my seven year old best friend. We walked across the street, knocked on the door. The dad wasn't home, but the 15 year old daughter was.

So we told her about this yellow jacket's nest. She goes, well, you guys show me where it is. Can you help me get rid of it? And our preface is by saying, I have the most conservative protective parents you've ever met. Wasn't allowed to stay with the babysitter. Couldn't be around smokers. Couldn't go to the firework shows. Couldn't ride a go-kart. There was any chance of anything bad happening. Wasn't allowed to do it.

And so we go, we pointed to the ground, the hole in the ground where the yellow jackets are flying in and out. She grabs a match and we're standing about 10 to 15 feet away. She throws it down on the nest. Nothing happens, right? The match in of itself will do nothing. So as we're standing there watching these yellow jackets, she grabs a cup of gasoline without telling us, pitches it, hits me on the right side of my face and my shoulder hits my buddy on the left side.

hits that match and within an instant we're both engulfed in flames. And I remember thinking the yellow jackets are gonna get me. So I ran across the street to my yard, stopped, dropped and rolled, put my flames out. And when I looked back over, I see my buddy Jeff standing there screaming. And she, I guess was in shock, was hiding behind some bushes. So I ran back across the street, got a water hose and put him out.

Lindsay Hiken (08:00.583)
Lindsay Hiken (08:24.397)
Wow.

Shay Eskew (08:25.582)
Somebody who went and my mom, they called the paramedics. We spent the next three months in the hospital. And as a result of it, my right ear had to be amputated. My right arm was permanently melted to my body. It took three years for me to lift my arm over my head. I had learned how to right left handed to finish the third grade. I had learned how to walk again. I was told I never played in sports again. I mean, it was quite a journey to get back to.

Mike Ergo (08:26.489)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (08:40.505)
Shay Eskew (08:55.192)
what I would call normal. To date, I've had 43 surgeries. Still having more coming up.

Lindsay Hiken (09:00.291)
Wow.

Shay Eskew (09:05.13)
But it's been a heck of a journey. people always say, look, if you could go back in time, would you choose not to walk across that street and tell her about the Yellow Jackets? I say, if you were to ask me that when I was 13, 15, or even say 21, absolutely. Like who would want to go through everything that I've been through? But when I look at what I've experienced as a result of it, I say, absolutely, I'd do it.

all over again. I'm married 22 years, got five kids under 19. There's nothing in life I've ever missed at all.

Mike Ergo (09:36.259)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (09:40.759)
Whoa.

Lindsay Hiken (09:44.619)
Hmm, that's awesome. Kind of joking, but not joking. Five kids under 19 has got to be one of the hardest things you've ever done.

Shay Eskew (09:53.078)
Well, I've to everybody we're overachievers. If you're going to do it, go all in. But it is by far my greatest achievement. know, it's one of the most thankless, selfless things you do. know, any parent that's been there knows what I'm talking about. That's what your legacy is, right? Like nobody cares what you achieve, how many races it's. To me, you judge it by how your kids turn on life and how you've prepared them.

Mike Ergo (10:00.537)
I love it.

Shay Eskew (10:22.68)
that really matters.

Lindsay Hiken (10:23.369)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (10:25.241)
Yeah, I get that. I was thinking of something you said, Shay, you know, just about having to overcome adversity. And I imagine when you got to the triathlon scene, in some ways, mentally, you were probably more prepared than the average person, extremely. And then physically, I know you have some complications with sweating and that would make triathlon hard. How was the journey into triathlon and what did you have to do to

be able to compete at such a high level.

Shay Eskew (11:00.59)
degree I think what I went through at eight really prepared me differently than most people. We didn't get pain meds. When they amputated my ear most of it was done while I was awake with a pair of scissors. We never received any kind of opioid. The strongest thing I ever got for pain was extra strength Tylenol. We kind of learned how to push through pain. You you realize most of it's mental. So one of the things I tell everybody is the result of getting burned I lost the ability to compete in sports that required finesse and touch.

Mike Ergo (11:21.912)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (11:29.966)
just don't have full range of motion. But if there was a sport that required all out effort, last man standing, whoever had the highest pain threshold wins, those were sports I excelled in. I wrestled in high school, boxed in college and got into Ironman. And the successes I had was never because I was a good athlete. I think it was because I was persistent, I was gritty, I put in the daily work. I didn't rely on immediate gratification.

Lindsay Hiken (11:29.987)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (11:43.257)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (11:59.17)
The fact that it took three years to lift my arm overhead, I success is measured in years, not in days or weeks, right? And I think just kind of having that appreciation that small gains contribute to bigger ones, and do the daily things that you know were the right things, you know success is gonna happen. And so that's where I'm thankful for everything I've been through. I didn't have to learn these hard lessons, but I would agree like mentally,

Mike Ergo (12:08.174)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (12:28.15)
I think I was well prepared for these sports. Physically, Mike, you you hit the nail on the head. Because of severe burns, I have no sweat glands on a third of my body. I physically can't sweat. In the other two thirds, I can't stop sweating. So I can't thermoregulate. So if it's really hot, and my definition is generally above 80, 85 degrees, my body feels like I'm on fire. Like when I'm running, like it literally

Mike Ergo (12:50.104)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (12:55.138)
And so I sweat five pounds every hour during the races. so in the Ironmans, every one I've done, I'm urinating blood during the run. Most people that probably freak you out, right? But I know it's just normal for someone like me, that I'm going to be fine. Just rehydrate after, just severe dehydration. Now, old race is completely different. Those are my favorites, you know, because I don't have all the sweating.

Lindsay Hiken (13:03.831)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (13:05.123)
Goodness gracious. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:17.613)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (13:22.784)
Mm-hmm

Lindsay Hiken (13:24.569)
Right, world championships aren't

Mike Ergo (13:26.339)
Yeah.

Shay Eskew (13:31.35)
No, I haven't been to one that is. Those are miserable, right? It's but I've always qualified generally in a cold race. And so, you know, it's interesting to bring that up too, cause my viewpoint of the world championships is different. Like the first ones I was like, Hey, I want to see how good I can do. It's all about me and what I can do. And then you realize, you know what? It's more about a celebration of the journey that my wife's put up with this. My kids have made sacrifices.

Mike Ergo (13:31.907)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:35.939)
GASP

Mike Ergo (13:37.379)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:40.729)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (14:01.186)
let's make the trip about them. The race just happens to be a component of it. Because I mean, if you go to Kona and the other races, like all week, everybody, you're very race focused. And after doing Kona in 2012, I was like, man, I felt so selfish on the flight home. was like, this could have been a truly amazing experience for the whole family, but yet it was so focused on me getting ready for the race.

felt like I was taken away from them. And so ever since then, it's been more about, hey, focus on spending the time with your wife and your kids. Race day, it's all about you for those hours. But my happiness didn't come from doing great in the race. was more about just doing my best, but more about enjoying the time with my family there.

Lindsay Hiken (14:49.657)
And have you found a difference in the result in terms of how you feel on race day by spending more time focusing on your family and maybe a little less time focusing on race prep?

Shay Eskew (15:02.882)
think you're definitely a lot more relaxed. You know, it's all about keeping things in perspective. You don't have that guilt after the race. You're like, man, I could have picked up two minutes here. I could have picked up a minute here. You're beating yourself up over your time. And it's more about truly just taking joy that you're there. Like how many people would just love to have the opportunity to do what you're doing.

Why are you nitpicking, taking away from your experience? Cause you're like, Oh, I could have been better. I think that's one of the things we all have to fight in life is really just having a sense of joy for being there in that moment, that time. And it's like one of the things I tell my wife, you you commented about the five kids and I was like, at times it is very overwhelming. You know, there's we've got three and travel soccer one that we travel with for wrestling.

Every weekend we're somewhere, oftentimes in different states. My wife and I trying to get our kids to where they need to be. But like I tell her when things aren't going quite as smoothly as we'd like us, like how many people would love to have five bratty kids? How many people that have lost a kid or had a kid with medical challenges would love to be dealing with the headaches, right? These are good challenges. So it's just having a sense of perspective.

Mike Ergo (16:12.579)
Right.

Shay Eskew (16:22.926)
at that moment. And I think it's so easy sometimes to kind of get overwhelmed and, you know, get frustrated. I always remind myself, it's like in these races, you know, when I'm maybe not having as good as races I'd like, I was like, my knees are killing me. Well, you know, I bet somebody with prosthetic legs would love to have two achy knees, right? It's just happy with the gratitude.

Lindsay Hiken (16:29.849)
you

Lindsay Hiken (16:44.027)
Yes.

Mike Ergo (16:44.513)
Yes. Yeah.

That's the thought that got me through. Go ahead, Lindsay.

Lindsay Hiken (16:48.727)
Yeah, it's definitely true. Go ahead, Mike. I was just going to say that.

Mike Ergo (16:55.673)
I was saying that that thought you especially about legs.

Lindsay Hiken (17:01.805)
I think we have a delay, so I'm going to be quiet and Mike's going to go.

Mike Ergo (17:07.001)
Sure. Yeah. I appreciate it. what you're saying about people, like when you're racing and your legs are hurting, how many people would love to have legs running and be on that course? And, and that's that, that was the single thought I think that got me through the run in Kona because my legs hurt worse than anything during that run. And I said, you know what? The, that means I have legs. That means I'm alive. That means I'm here and

And I think like what you're saying, Shay, when you have these adverse experiences, you know, I had a couple and in combat in Iraq and it made me appreciate being right here in the moment who, mean, how many people would give anything to have another day, you know, with friends and family would have another day to be able to be healthy and.

be at such a high level competing that, like you said, with your family too, when you put things in perspective, it goes so much more smoothly and I love that.

Lindsay Hiken (18:08.897)
Mm hmm. Yeah. I was thinking about applying this to just life in general, Shay, you know, when I'm, you know, feeling very sorry for myself, which happens as part of my, you know, I'm a sober person. And I would say part of my disease of alcoholism is there's a saying, pour me, pour me, pour me a drink, you know, and I, you know, of course, I can get into that because

just the nature of the mental illness is that it's sort of trying to point you back to a drink. but I have things that I do like go to meetings and I, you know, I work with other people who are sober and do all these things. And the number one thing that it does for me, because I don't, I'm coming up on 22 years without a drink. So it's been a long time. But the

the disease is still around, you know what I mean? It's just waiting for me to take a wrong step. And so what brings me back to reality and to feeling on the beam is to get into a state of gratitude, because it's literally all about my perspective. Like how much in danger am I of taking a drink? Not really a whole lot on any given day right now. But if I get into this where I'm not grateful and I think everything is

about me and it's not going how I want it and do all of those things, I get closer to drinking further away from sobriety, which is scary. So I think what you're talking about is really a helpful tool for anybody racing or just in life.

Shay Eskew (19:48.398)
Yeah, and I think one of the things, as far as that sense of perspective, it's looking at things as happening for me as opposed to to me, right? And so one of the things, like I'm really big in my faith. And so when things are going not as I would like, I always say, all right, God, I get it. What are you preparing me for? Like there's something on the other side of this challenge that when I get through this, I'm going be able to do stuff I couldn't previously do, right?

Lindsay Hiken (20:16.685)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (20:17.23)
This experience is uniquely preparing me for something. And so, you know, I always pray for not to take it away, but to give me the faith and the confidence to see it out. And I think one of the things we need to all remind ourselves in life when we're faced with something is we will get through it. Regardless what we think, the fact that we are here today is evidence we will get through all these things in our life that we never thought we could get through.

Lindsay Hiken (20:28.505)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (20:29.645)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (20:35.416)
Right.

Lindsay Hiken (20:44.355)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (20:45.686)
And then you look at once you get through on the other side of something is wow. Now what? Right? And I tell people it's funny. You know, we always struggle. We complain when something's going bad in our life. But when we sit around our friends and we start talking about the good old days, it always involves some kind of hardship. Hey, remember when we could barely pay our rent, we just got married or we just took that job and. Those are the things that we love and cherish.

Mike Ergo (20:47.565)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:05.497)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (21:13.869)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (21:14.988)
And so why is it the moment something starts going wrong, we start complaining, to get our proudest moments or the moments when we struggle the most, and the things that we achieved as a result of.

Mike Ergo (21:17.069)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (21:21.667)
You

Lindsay Hiken (21:27.705)
100 % I am. I have a similar experience and I love what you just said about about your faith. You know, for me, I've developed a relationship with my own higher power and my own concept of what that is. But I know that if I rely on my relationship with my higher power, I will, which, you know, I call God, but that I'll get through whatever it is that's

I perceive to be giving me a hard time. And one thing that I've noticed and you may have noticed this too, Shay, but whatever thing I think I want or like if I am going through something, the I'll have an outcome in mind that's better than what I'm getting. You know what I mean? Like like why is God? Why am I not getting, you know, why is this happening to me instead of for me? And what I've learned is that

Whatever my brain is capable of comprehending and understanding is never as good or as big of a thing that my higher power gives me in the end. I just couldn't comprehend it. I didn't think of it because I was like, this sucks. It's like, no, actually it doesn't suck. You just are incapable of seeing all that's out there for you.

Mike Ergo (22:41.507)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (22:49.974)
Yeah, Lindsay, think that's why I'm a big fan of reading, especially nonfiction, because what it does, it shapes how we view adversity in our life. And that way, when something bad happens, our first immediate reaction is, hey, I read about something like this. I'll cancer. Right. Whether it's, know, Ernest Shackleton and stuck in Antarctica for two years.

Lindsay Hiken (23:12.633)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (23:18.758)
or somebody battling cancer. And I think that's it, right? It's our brains are so finite in their ability to comprehend things. It takes us experiencing something to truly understand. And that's why I feel like the more you can read about those kinds of situations, the more you can start influencing your brain. Like I'm a big believer of RAS, Reticular Activation System. So it's kind of a process your brain goes through.

Are you guys, are you familiar with that? So basically it's a process your brain goes through every single day. So all of our brains come, I call it pre-built with factory with little filters in them. To give you an example, like if I'm in an airport, they're calling hundreds of names throughout the whole time I'm there. I can't tell you one name they call, but I guarantee you as soon as they say, Eskew, you left your bag at security, come back here.

Lindsay Hiken (23:49.376)
No.

Shay Eskew (24:18.286)
Instantly your brain hears out of all the noise going on you hear your name and you run back the same as the moment you get a brand new car

Lindsay Hiken (24:29.081)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (24:30.208)
you will notice every single, say, Mustang that you see in your neighborhood on the way to work at the mall. Because those are things that are important to your brain. And that's what RAS does is things that are important, it brings more of those things to you because your brain believes it's important. And so if you're one of those people that believes things happen to you, it's going to reinforce your beliefs. So every time something bad happens in life, like...

Lindsay, this is horrible. Look how bad it is. You're such a victim. Can you believe someone cut you off? Can you believe, you know, all these things? Whereas if you believe things happen to you, you're gonna say, my gosh, I got this flat tire, but because I got this flat tire, I wasn't involved in this big accident that happened two miles down the road. Right? And so your brain starts attributing silver linings to every bad thing that happens in life.

Lindsay Hiken (25:04.407)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Shay Eskew (25:26.924)
And so that's what I believe has helped me is to kind of always look for silver lining every time something's went wrong. And I believe it's a quick way to kind of change that victim mentality.

Lindsay Hiken (25:39.61)
Yeah, that's definitely the victim mentality is definitely something I think a lot of us suffer from. Like I said, I definitely have dealt with it, but I have to say I've been better in sobriety just through going the process of for me, I worked the 12 steps and doing this process where you kind of go through your inventory of your

behaviors that you had when you were drinking, which there's many and you do these sort of columns of like, I'm resentful at this person because of this thing. What does it affect? My fears, my sex relations, my financial stuff. And then you write down what is my part in it. It's like I had my ex-husband in there and I came in a victim because he's an a-hole. You know what I mean? And so he victimized me.

The truth is, once I wrote all that down and said, well, what is my part in this? I was able to see how he did some things for my kids that I wasn't capable of doing at the time because I was drinking. He gave them some stability that I was not able to provide. so if I can go through a little process like that, I can get back out of my victimhood. So it's kind of like what you're talking about. I didn't know that it was called RAS, but it's sort of the same thing of like, hmm, maybe this isn't all like,

Mike Ergo (26:48.408)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (27:04.587)
external forces just coming at me. Maybe there's a part of me that has something to do with this and I could change the outcome by changing how I behave in the situation. What do you think about that, Mike? Or did you have something else to say?

Mike Ergo (27:10.809)
you

Mike Ergo (27:20.249)
Oh yeah, I love the concept of victimhood and self-pity and that, mean, it would have been totally understandable and easy for people to accept probably if you had chosen to be a victim and have that mindset because of what happened to you, but you chose a different path, which thank God, right? And I was a...

self-pitying veteran for a few years. And sure, yeah, some bad things happened that I wish I could have avoided or not been part of, but the perspective, I guess, is what I'm getting at is makes the world of the difference. Because if you have a different perspective and you can find those silver linings, then your life experience changes, then you have power, then you can do something about it.

But if you're a victim, everything just happens to you and you have no agency and there's nothing you can do in your own mind. And then your choices are limited. So I love just the perspective that you bring to life, And I love the perspective you have on your circumstances and the silver linings and finding the good and finding the positive and finding the opportunities where many people might just see challenges, roadblocks and problems.

Shay Eskew (28:45.196)
Yeah, you know, I think a big part of it too, Mike is it's who you surround yourself with. And for me, when I first got burned, I mean, I'm in this intensive care unit in Cincinnati at the Shriners hospital, 500 miles away from my home, you know, no friends or family, just my mom with me. And any moment, like I would start to feel sorry for myself, I just glance around the room, right? I had a two year old.

in a crib next to me that was severely burned. There was a four-year-old that I see this young girl severely burned. Her face was melted to her chest, little nubs for fingers, two holes for her nose, always smiling and laughing. You're like, how can I dare feel sorry for myself? Look how bad she is. If she can smile, I have nothing to complain about, right? And that's the thing is like, if you're surrounded by people that

or complainers and are always looking for what's wrong in life, they're going to bring you down to their level. Right. But if you're surrounded by high achievers, people are always, hey, I'm in brother. Let's let's go. We can do it. You know, whatever it takes, I'm all in. Well, guess what? You're going to have a very fulfilling and happy life as a of it. I think so many people get caught in that trap and. It's just natural you give in to the environment, you put yourself in and.

One of the things you have to learn to do is kind of cut those people loose in your life. And you will notice the quality of your life is going to go way up when you spend time with us. And I know Mike, you know, as part of your deployment, you know, one of things I hear from all my veteran friends is like, when you have that tribe, that's the hardest part. Cause when you come back to civilian life, you don't have that family around you 24 seven to always pick you up like what we're used to. Right.

Lindsay Hiken (30:17.401)
Mm.

Shay Eskew (30:41.966)
And it's one of the things I miss about competing in high school and college. Like I had my teammates, right? They're always like, dude, suck it up. Don't be such a baby. Let's go. You we didn't have time for gaming. just want to.

Mike Ergo (30:45.719)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (30:47.606)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (30:50.485)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (30:51.865)
Yeah, the idea of having a family that you pick or

Mike Ergo (30:59.022)
Yeah.

Well, I pulled up.

Lindsay Hiken (31:08.121)
I was just going to say I like the idea Shay that you brought up of having a family that you, you know, you have your family, but also having like teammates and people that you are choosing to be in your life as sort of a secondary family, the ones that are positive. And I heard one time that if you if someone's standing below you and you're standing above, if you try to

Like if I try to pull them up or they try to pull me down, it's much easier for them to pull me down than it is for me to pull them up. And I often think about that in the context of people who I'm surrounding myself. they reaching their hands up to yank down or are they reaching their hands? And I think someone who's reaching down to help you, you could step up. That'll help them bring you up, because if you step up, but if you're just pulling down, you're going to bring them down with you.

Mike Ergo (31:52.887)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (32:08.547)
Yeah, fully agree. I fully agree to that. so Shay, the, the title of your book is what the fire ignited. And I pulled up, it looks like 12 of the tenants you have. don't know if you call them tenants or not, but I just want to read through some of them and ask you about a couple of them. And one to ignite your fire. One is make a difference today. Two is quit talking about it. Just do it. Three, commit to doing the hard work always.

Four, when you compete, compete to win. Five, never lose because you weren't prepared. Six, give 110 % in everything you do. Seven, be memorable and stand out. Eight, remember what's really important. Nine, spend time with successful people, which we were just talking about. 10, which I love, laugh at yourself daily. 11, embrace the suck. And 12, live as if tomorrow is no guarantee.

And, I love that. And I wanted to ask you about a couple of those. One was commit to doing the hard work always. And how, I mean, you exemplify that because I'm watching you on social media and no matter where you go, you seem to either bring your bike with you, find a gym or a pool or somewhere to run and complete some kind of insane workout, no matter what time of day it is or night.

How has that changed, that attitude changed how you navigate life?

Shay Eskew (33:45.87)
As far as the change, excuses are out there. You can either find them or ignore them. You've to figure out who you are. Again, I talked about my kids in travel sports, which is not conducive to training for an Ironman. Then I remind myself, look, you're not a professional athlete, you're a weekend warrior. So whatever time you can get in at the hotel gym between the kids' games, that's a success.

Just like with practices. mean, there's oftentimes I'll run for an hour and a half while they're practicing. And then all the other parents are staring at you like you're crazy, but you're like, hey, look, I can either choose like you guys to sit in chair and watch my kids practice, or I can get my workout in today and contribute to my own success. And so you just got to ask yourself, look, am I going to live like the top 1 %?

Or am going to give into excuses and live like the other 99 %? And I think once you kind of make that choice, you know what the right answer is every single day. It's not really a choice. You've built a habit. And so I don't have to ask myself, hmm, I wonder if I can do this. I'm like, hell yeah, I can do it. Right? And so like anytime I travel, I always have a plan with all my workout clothes. I have my workouts pre-written. I know what needs to be done.

Mike Ergo (34:47.129)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (34:55.683)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (35:02.265)
Yes.

Shay Eskew (35:10.602)
then you manage accordingly. But you know, like one of the things I think is really important that kind of comes into this. How do you squeeze in the workouts and do these things? It's. Realize if you want to be successful, you got to make sacrifices. That's a given. You can't go have drinks with your buddies and watch football with your buddies. Spend the weekends away from the house. If you want to be successful, but on that same token, it's figure out.

Mike Ergo (35:28.675)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (35:39.83)
What things are you not willing to sacrifice? And so for me, it's time away from my wife and kids. Right? Like if I'm claiming I'm doing these things to be a better husband, a better dad and provide for my family, I got to make sure the actions and commitments I'm making daily reinforce that. And so like I had people all the time, hey man, come hang out with us Saturday. Let's go do this crazy bike ride on my dude. No, I'm going to ride in my basement.

Mike Ergo (35:44.537)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (35:48.43)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (36:08.003)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (36:08.718)
because I told my wife I would make breakfast in bed tomorrow and then I'm going to take a break halfway through and go to my kids game and come back and finish. And that's what you got to realize is you can't have everything, but figure out what are the commitments you're willing to stick by that will make you happy because if you're standing on the podium and you're by yourself and your family's not there to cheer you on, to me you failed in life.

Mike Ergo (36:28.707)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (36:33.645)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (36:36.044)
Like I have no desire to win a race at the sacrifice of my family. And I've watched a ton of documentaries on Uber successful athletes. And I don't know many where I saw their family talk about, I remember dad. We pitched ball every Saturday and we do all these things. Right. The memories about what dad was here. Dad was here. That's not what I want. And again, I'm not trying to take away from what they achieved.

Mike Ergo (36:38.094)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (36:54.573)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (37:05.474)
That's just not what I want in life.

Lindsay Hiken (37:08.001)
Mm-hmm. Well, I love the idea of balancing it all the way you are by, you know, the idea of balancing your family and your work life and your workout life by just sort of figuring out what you need to do and then just doing it based on what's in line with your values. I think you don't hear a lot about athletes basing their training and their racing.

Mike Ergo (37:09.877)
Agreed.

Lindsay Hiken (37:37.434)
necessarily on their values. So if your value is your family, then you know how you're making things happen, whether it's taking a break in the middle of your ride to go to a game. I think that's a really neat concept. And I feel like a lot of athletes, including myself, would be a little happier if we based our training and our racing and things on to make sure that they're in alignment with values. I love that point that you made. And Mike, I know you had another one of Shay's.

Mike Ergo (38:04.953)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (38:07.385)
What was that?

Mike Ergo (38:10.743)
Yeah. Tenants or as I'm calling them, but, number 10 was laugh at yourself daily. And that's something I love to do. because I think w one, one trick I was taught to deal with adverse situations is, I, a good friend, Todd Godwin, who was, who was killed in Iraq. And, up until that point, when we go through just really difficult training evolutions or really difficult missions, he'd say,

you know, and something go wrong, inevitably, something would go wrong, there'd be a problem, an obstacle, a barrier. You'd say, don't ask why this is happening, ask why it wouldn't happen. And then it's funny. Between that and treating every interaction I have with people that are less than pleasant as, as if I'm in my own sitcom. And then I just listened to the laugh track in the bath, the background of my head.

It makes everything doable. So I'm wondering how you incorporate that into your life, in terms of laughing at yourself and the situation.

Shay Eskew (39:17.454)
Yeah. You know, for me, humor has always been a coping mechanism. You know, when I got burned, was fortunate enough that around the same time, Wes Craven released his movie Nightmare on Elm Street. It's what called me Freddy Krueger. And, you know, for a while, I thought I was Freddy Krueger. When I looked in mirror, I saw this horrible monster with scars, because my scars looked nothing like they did back then. But then, you know, it set in, I was like, hey, look.

I'm going to be carrying these cars for the rest of my life. So I might as well have fun with it. And so when those same kids would say, hey, Freddy Krueger, I say, yes, I'll see you in your dreams tonight. And that's what you kind of learn is like,

Mike Ergo (39:57.42)
Ha ha!

Shay Eskew (40:01.388)
People can't make you feel any differently than you feel about yourself. The more you let them know, look, I'm OK with these scars and one ear. look, I'm fine with it. I'm sorry it bothers you. I'm sorry your life's so miserable that you got to find a way to put me down. But I'm OK with it. And so it's always been a way for me to deal with things. But if I'm in a lot of pain, you'll know because I start laughing.

Lindsay Hiken (40:05.72)
Right.

Mike Ergo (40:25.113)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (40:29.486)
Like that is my immediate relaxions, not screaming. It's just, I just start laughing. Um, and it's crazy, right? Cause it's kind of freak some people out. You're like, but I'm not a lot of pain right now. Um, it's just a way to reframe things. You try not to give into what you're really feeling. Um, but like, you just, like I tell my wife, she was like, why can't you be serious? was like life serious enough. Why do we have to make it harder than it really should be?

Lindsay Hiken (40:37.443)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (40:45.741)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (40:47.353)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Ergo (40:59.672)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (41:00.11)
You know, if I have a choice, I prefer to have fun. It's just who I am. And I found most people generally prefer having fun versus being serious if you give them the opportunity.

Lindsay Hiken (41:00.36)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (41:13.377)
yeah, definitely. Definitely. think that's one of the attractions of social media is that people like to look at memes just because the levity of of, know, and it's a blessing and a curse, right? You can get sucked into social media and lose just an immense amount of time. But I've noticed, you know, when you see like how many people like a meme, any given meme, the funny ones always have the most likes.

Shay Eskew (41:15.501)
No?

Mike Ergo (41:18.147)
Yeah. Nah, I love that.

Lindsay Hiken (41:43.33)
You know, and so sometimes you can think humanity is kind of doomed right now or something. But actually, there's all these people out there that are just like, hey, I want to I want to have levity in my life. I want to laugh. I want to enjoy life. And so you can see a four million people like this meme. like, OK, there's four million other people who think this is funny, too. You don't feel quite as quite as alone.

Shay Eskew (42:06.306)
Yeah, I agree 100%. And I think TV has done a great job lately to have making us realize like the people we used to marginalize, like the nerds that now they're the funniest people we know, right? Like how many sitcoms have you seen, right? They're about, he's so funny. And you're like, man, those are the same people that maybe in high school were made fun of. Now that we're adults, we really appreciate just how funny they are.

Lindsay Hiken (42:16.546)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (42:23.641)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (42:30.457)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (42:35.501)
Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Mike Ergo (42:35.865)
Yeah. Yes.

Shay Eskew (42:37.646)
Like Ted Lasso, right? Like how many people love Ted Lasso? And in all records, he's probably a big goofball, but guy, he's so funny, right? He just makes you laugh and you realize you feel so much better about yourself and life in general, being around people like Ted Lasso.

Lindsay Hiken (42:41.737)
my god.

Lindsay Hiken (42:49.367)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (42:52.824)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (43:00.045)
Yeah, mean, and the concept that you have of making laughing at yourself is also really, good. Taking oneself too seriously, I'll speak for myself, I don't speak for someone else, but taking myself too seriously is a dangerous place for me to be mentally. It's not good for my mental health hygiene to completely, you know what I mean, focus on myself and take myself too seriously when I can laugh at myself at whatever.

Mike Ergo (43:00.973)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (43:19.211)
Mm-hmm. Same for me.

Lindsay Hiken (43:29.069)
bullshit I'm doing right at the moment, know, it gets me out of it gets me out of myself and I'm always much happier mentally, you know, and emotionally when I can laugh at myself. So I do practice that and I highly recommend it for anybody who's listening to this podcast, you know, try to bring a little levity into your life and try not to take everything you do and think, you know, so seriously. Let's do one more, Mike.

Mike Ergo (44:00.003)
Yeah, one I really like at, excuse me, let me learn how to talk again. The one I really like as well is live as if tomorrow is no guarantee. And I know what that means for me and through my experience, I'd love to hear about how that came to you and how that resonates with you,

Shay Eskew (44:22.732)
Yeah, mean a lot of people say it right, but what does it mean to actually live it out? Give an example like for me, I had to have torn rotator cuff surgery. had both shoulders completely rebuilt. The last one, you know, we're literally getting up heading to the hospital to have surgery and as we're about to get the car, said, babe, hang on a minute. Give me two minutes. I run back in the house and I do as many pull-ups as I can do.

She's like, what the hell are you doing? I said, this may be the last pull-up I ever do. I don't know this surgery is gonna be fantastic. And if it doesn't, I want to know that I made use of the last minute I had, right? I guarantee you, you come in, before I have any surgery, you'll see me doing push-ups. Because I always tell myself, if I can't do them when I wake up, I made use of every minute. And that's what you want in life. And too many people are always like, well, we'll get to it tomorrow.

Mike Ergo (45:00.803)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (45:15.074)
Hmm.

Shay Eskew (45:20.952)
And like I'm one of those people that generally if it's something I want to do or have intention of doing, let's just do it tonight. You know, like my daughter, two nights ago, 10 o'clock at night, I'm on the roof of the house with a headlamp on, hot glue and skeletons to the house. And she's like, dad, what are you doing? I well, I told you, I'm gonna get these skeletons hung up for Halloween. I don't know I'll be able to do it tomorrow.

Mike Ergo (45:30.891)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (45:38.233)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (45:45.689)
you

Yeah.

Shay Eskew (45:50.798)
I'm the dummy on the roof with a headlamp with a hot glue gun. I just feel like life means so much more when you truly live it that way. I'm not advocating I stay up till one o'clock every night doing everything possible, but doing the things that I can on any given day that mean something to me, you know?

Lindsay Hiken (45:55.267)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (46:01.027)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (46:12.441)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I will argue that being on your roof in the dark with a headlamp might end it a little earlier than you had planned. You know what I mean? Because it's dangerous activities.

Shay Eskew (46:26.028)
Well, I was very, I mean, you hate to say safe and being in the roof, but the small roof that I was on, there's two big lights there. So I've done it before, not that that makes it any better. but I was very careful that, Hey, hold this hand. the technical stuff I've done when the lights was light outside, but very task oriented.

Lindsay Hiken (46:49.272)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (46:52.661)
good. I probably I can tell it's gotten you far. What else Mike do you have anything else you want to talk about?

Mike Ergo (46:54.606)
Love it.

Mike Ergo (47:05.773)
I just want to say Shay, I appreciate you coming on the show and I appreciate you talking about your experiences and it's such a gift for me to know you. I remember when we met in New York at the Kona premiere and just sense just that you're just this beam of positive light and radiance and I love it's infectious because

I'm already planning my workouts for tomorrow and how I can be better and how I can do things today that I will put off. I'm just motivated. And so I appreciate all the energy you bring to life and, and I know you bring that to everyone you're around. So thank you.

Shay Eskew (47:51.438)
Well, I appreciate it. you know, it's one of those my fit enjoyed getting to know you over the years and just truly feel blessed. All the people God's brought into my life. Like I'm one of those people that believe God introduces me to people for a reason. It's not coincidence. And I think when you start looking at your daily encounters with people and say, Hey, what's special about this person? You know, it may seem completely random, some stranger.

But if you take the time to have an interaction, you'd be amazed. Like, I mean, I've met a guy in a Starbucks that wind up being my shoe sponsor and he wound up writing me a check for $10,000 to go compete in Kona. And all of those, because I met him in the Starbucks line in Atlanta and he was on his tennis shoes, right? And so you just never know. And that's what I everybody. Like every interaction, like, Hey, this could be meaningful.

Lindsay Hiken (48:35.052)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (48:38.04)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (48:40.066)
Huh?

Mike Ergo (48:44.651)
Hehehehe

Lindsay Hiken (48:50.424)
Yeah.

Shay Eskew (48:51.138)
It's kind of look around and interact with people in life. It's crazy. Well, very blessed.

Lindsay Hiken (48:55.801)
That's the...

Mike Ergo (48:56.885)
Mm-hmm, fully agree.

Lindsay Hiken (49:01.143)
Yeah, I love that idea and that everyone is put there for a reason other than just random and coincidence. Right now have some people in my life that probably, like you had mentioned earlier, probably don't need to necessarily be there but with the negative attitude, but they're also, I can look at them as teachers as well, right? And just because they aren't doing.

something the way I would do it doesn't mean that that's not a good thing. I like what you said. It's definitely inspired me to feel, to try to look at each person a little deeper than maybe just the surface. And so I appreciate that, Shay, and I appreciate you talking to us about your races and about the childhood and the challenges that you had there. That's all definitely inspirational. Whenever I see someone who's gone through something like you have or meet someone, I always feel like...

You know, I always feel the sense of how amazing humans really can be. And I appreciate you bringing that to our show today.

Shay Eskew (50:06.062)
Thank you. And I do want to add the note. When I share, always tell people like, I'm not here to compare. Like, because I feel like we all have been through something, whether it's mental, physical, spiritual, financial. And as humans, we tend to want to compare, I've had it worse or I don't believe that. Like I believe me getting burned may be the same as somebody else breaking an arm. It's just.

I don't try to do that. try to say, look, here's what I've been through. And then try to have sympathy or empathy for those who are going through other struggles because they all impact us differently, right? But I can assure you one thing, everybody's dealing with something. And I think we all need others to be a little more kind and understanding and not so quick judges.

Mike Ergo (50:52.707)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (51:01.102)
I mean, that's the thing that worries me. see today in the world is everybody's quick to label you and hey, I can't be friends with you. And I was like, wait a minute. I've watched all these people growing up all these years. We went to high school to college and now because you can air all your beliefs out on social media. Now you don't like each other. like, but for the first 30 years of your life, you guys were best friends, right? But now because we have to air every little. It's just.

Lindsay Hiken (51:25.24)
Right.

Mike Ergo (51:26.591)
Yeah, yes.

Shay Eskew (51:29.866)
It blows my mind. I'm like, man, hey guys. Quite simple. Let's not make it hard. Let's have respect for each other.

Lindsay Hiken (51:34.167)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (51:39.038)
Mike and I definitely are with you on that. We talk about a lot with each other about how we're very different and different. We come from very different backgrounds. I'm a black female who's in her mid-50s. You know what I mean? I'm very different than Mike. Mike is a millennial redhead, couldn't be pale or white.

Mike Ergo (52:04.269)
Hahaha.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (52:07.241)
And a guy, a veteran. And I grew up in this very, very incredibly sort of hippied out family that was definitely, there were military people in my family, there was fighting within the family about whether you should or shouldn't be. And I didn't have an opinion on that necessarily, but just coming from that background, Mike and I shouldn't in today's world be friends. Because if you just judge on the surface,

Mike Ergo (52:34.137)
Yeah.

Shay Eskew (52:36.246)
That's unfortunate that people feel that way, right?

Lindsay Hiken (52:39.295)
Mm-hmm.

Shay Eskew (52:41.172)
I keep thinking like how many people would be friends if we didn't know every little thought you experience, right?

Mike Ergo (52:42.233)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (52:48.033)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole nother show.

Shay Eskew (52:52.302)
On that same note though, I do love when some of these people take time to invite somebody that thinks differently to sit down with them and talk openly for an hour, hour and a half. I've seen a lot of these people change their opinions just because they finally had this dialogue that wasn't scripted that they're like, well, you know, you're actually a pretty decent person. You know, I had all these preconceptions based off these sound lights.

Mike Ergo (52:55.714)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (53:14.584)
Right.

Mike Ergo (53:15.949)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Shay Eskew (53:22.274)
that once actually got to meet you. And that's what you wonder in life is how many of these people that are enemies or the media puts, poses them as enemies on any given day might actually be good friends hanging out. Right? I don't know. That's crazy. I get caught up in this.

Mike Ergo (53:36.313)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (53:36.343)
Yeah, yeah, know it's. Yeah, well, maybe we'll have you back and we'll discuss this topic for, for an hour. Yeah, that would be fun to talk about current state of the world with people. I don't know, fun's the right word, but it would be interesting, entertaining. So I think we did it.

Mike Ergo (53:39.139)
Yeah, fully agree.

Shay Eskew (53:42.269)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (53:44.855)
Yes, that would be a great show. would love it.

Shay Eskew (53:59.606)
entertained.

Mike Ergo (54:03.298)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (54:04.257)
I appreciate you coming on Shay and yeah it was just really an honor to meet you.

Shay Eskew (54:06.328)
My pleasure.

Shay Eskew (54:12.408)
Thank you. Honor is all mine. Thank you.

Lindsay Hiken (54:14.841)
Alrighty, I'm going to bring us up. Sorry, Mike had something to say.

Mike Ergo (54:15.565)
Yeah, as

Thank you, Shay.

Mike Ergo (54:24.353)
Yeah, I just want to say that everyone listening, please go check out. You can find it everywhere, including Amazon with the fire ignited by Shay Eskew. And you can read more, do a deep dive on a story and learn about all kinds of other stories that we didn't even bring up today that he's been through that. It's a great book and we'll link to that and we'll link to his website and.

You can watch his performance in Kona and on YouTube and all kinds of other exciting things that Shay isn't part of. So, Shay, thank you for being a part of this and thank you everybody for listening.

Shay Eskew (55:07.182)
Thanks, Brett.

Lindsay Hiken (55:07.469)
Thank you. Bye.

Shay Eskew (55:09.72)
Goodbye.