Maddie Valley Part 2

Today we interview multiple IRONMAN finisher and coach, Maddie Valley, for part two. Maddie talks more in depth about her IRONMAN journey and the experience of being a trans athlete. To contact or find coaching information about Maddie, find it here below:

Ironman.Fitness.Coach@gmail.com

Maddie.Valley@tridot.com

Website - valley-coaching.com

Instagram - Valley_Coaching

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Transcript

Lindsay Hiken (00:01.379)
Hi everybody, welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co-host Lindsay along with Mike. What up Mike?

Mike Ergo (00:07.985)
Hey hey, how's it going?

Lindsay Hiken (00:09.753)
I'm sick. How about you?

Mike Ergo (00:11.816)
Ooh, not sick. So, better than you today, I think.

Lindsay Hiken (00:17.813)
I saw a text from you at 3am so is that your wake up time?

Mike Ergo (00:21.564)
Yeah. Yeah. A little insomnia here and there. So I get up at three, you know, wander the house, do some stretching, maybe have some coffee and, feed my dogs. And then, yeah, sometimes I go back to sleep. Sometimes it's just stay up, but where I get up and train. So I'll be running through the neighborhoods with one of those like glowy light up vests. So I don't get hit by cars and it's half.

Lindsay Hiken (00:45.945)
yeah.

Mike Ergo (00:50.802)
for my own safety and have to let other people know, yeah, I do want to be seen. I'm not like going through people's shit and some weird creep in the middle of the night.

Lindsay Hiken (00:59.513)
Right, right, right. You don't need people calling the cops on you. Your dogs must be stoked to get breakfast at three in the morning. My dogs definitely would love to get woken up and just fed the middle of the night if they could. Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (01:02.695)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (01:14.534)
Yeah, it's a good deal for them. The Doc's in those little lazy, it takes them convincing to get up. He groans and moans and I was like, come on, man, let's go.

Lindsay Hiken (01:20.267)
You

Well, as we've been doing, we've been checking in, kind of alternating on training and mental health. And this week would be a mental health check-in. So we do have a guest. We're really excited to bring back. I can't talk today because I'm sick, but we are excited to bring back Maddie Valley. And we're going to talk to her in just a minute. But let's check in on our mental health. How's it going that way, Mike?

Mike Ergo (01:46.376)
It's going pretty good and it ties into training because I've been running a lot, putting about 20 miles a weekend. Um, and so the running, cycling, swimming, lifting, doing all of those consistently, uh, has, it's made me feel kind of at ease, you know, and just pretty good. You know, before I had all this, you know, energy.

Lindsay Hiken (02:09.913)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (02:16.552)
nervous energy and now I feel just like I'm where I need to be. My dog's calm.

Lindsay Hiken (02:23.001)
Ah. Listeners, if you're not looking at this on YouTube, we have a second guest, which is what's what's your dog's name? Angus the Puck. He's very sweet, a little tired, given Mike some kisses. So I'll just check in really quickly. My mental health is so so not.

Mike Ergo (02:33.768)
This is Angus the pug.

Yeah.

Mike Ergo (02:41.458)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (02:49.717)
not anything to write home about not feeling super on the beam, but also not feeling too crazy, just sort of like flat a little bit, which happens with my cycle of bipolar too. can be a little bit like somewhat depressed, a little flat and

Mike Ergo (03:01.0)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (03:10.167)
I'm there today. But you know, it's, hard to say maybe this has to do with the fact that I'm getting sick. You know, it's hard to say why I've been feeling like that over the last couple days. Also, I was on vacation week before last and so last week was reentry into reality, which always totally sucks. And so, you know, I'm going to give it a few days and see if maybe it's not really mental health if it's a combination of reentry and being sick.

Mike Ergo (03:22.568)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (03:26.92)
It's a tough one.

Lindsay Hiken (03:37.847)
And then, know, if it lingers, I'll talk to my team that I have, therapists, psychologists, all of those people and see if I need to make changes. But anyway.

Mike Ergo (03:46.642)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (03:47.639)
That's our check in, I think. And I'd like to get to Maddie because we have lots of lots to talk about today. If you remember listeners, a few episodes ago, we had Maddie Valley on. She's a trans athlete, Ironman athlete and also a coach. And we just didn't get a chance to finish our conversation. So we're going to we're going to do that today. How's it going, Maddie?

Maddie Valley (04:12.263)
It's going good. It's going good. I also might be sick. I'm trying to kind of figure things out with that as well, but nothing to the same extent that you have going on, but yeah, doing okay.

Mike Ergo (04:18.828)
wow.

Lindsay Hiken (04:25.283)
Good, good. So one of the things that we didn't get a chance to talk to you, but I was interested in and I'm interested in in general and the trans community how this can work is that you have a partner that you were with prior to starting this process. Is that right?

Maddie Valley (04:46.248)
Yeah, it's actually funny that you bring that up specifically. I've had several friends reach out over the last few weeks that have said, you know, their partners come out as trans or they were able to follow along with my journey to be a better partner for their partner because their partner was coming out. So it's kind of interesting that you brought that up because I didn't

Mike Ergo (05:14.504)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (05:16.104)
I didn't realize that I could help people with that confusion there. I started dating Jesse in 2020, and I came out to her in 2021. And I was terrified of coming out to her. I didn't know how she would react. Her nephew had come out as trans.

maybe a few months before I did. And so I was nervous. Would she accept me? Would she leave me? So I wasn't really sure how she would react to all of that. I had written her a letter and thought, you know, I'll just leave her a letter and just pack up all my stuff in the night and leave because surely, surely she's not gonna wanna stay. And then we eventually just...

conversation with her I couldn't I couldn't even be brave enough to leave her a letter and just run out the door so we had a very difficult conversation there was a lot of tears- there was. Very awkward conversations and things like that but- ultimately we decided that. To just kind of take it day by day that we were going to see how things went and-

We're just gonna keep having those conversations. She knew that she wasn't attracted to women and she didn't consider herself a lesbian. And so she knew that there would come a day when we would no longer be together. But until then, there was no reason why we needed to end our relationship. We still loved each other and still cared for each other. So we had a lot of tough conversations over four years of transitioning.

Where are we checking in? Where are we now? How are we feeling? And I just kind of always felt like there was an expiration date to our relationship though, that someday eventually this was gonna all be over. But most recently she said, you know, there is no longer an expiration date. I love you. I still don't consider myself a lesbian. I still am not attracted to women, but I love you and I wanna be with you and I wanna continue.

Lindsay Hiken (07:32.009)
Mike Ergo (07:32.272)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (07:41.342)
down this road. but the biggest thing was, and my biggest advice for people is just continual communication. And you don't know, you don't know what your your partners, how they're going to react. There's no reason to jump to the negative mindset of that this is all going to be over. I use this a lot at the very beginning, but I don't know if it's necessarily the best thing to say, but

you go into a relationship with a man knowing that they're potentially going to become bald 20 years down the road. You don't wanna, if you're not attracted to a bald man, you're not going to break up with them now. You're going to continue to love them and build upon that relationship. And then at some point, them being bald is no longer that big turnoff that you thought it was 20 years ago. So there's no reason to break up because of baldness runs in their family.

Mike Ergo (08:15.208)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (08:35.769)
That's a good analogy. And I was thinking that when you were talking just that over the course of a long term relationship, a lot changes in that person that you're with. I maybe not their appearance to the extent that it changes when you're transitioning, but a lot changes, you know, as a woman who just was going through the quote unquote big change, you know, my whole body change my the way I

Mike Ergo (08:39.218)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (09:05.559)
responded to things change, you I gained weight, I've since lost the weight, but, you know, I gained quite a bit of weight, I definitely couldn't perform athletically the way I used to like we used to ride together and those things. And those are all things that would have kept Josh from getting into the relationship to begin with, you know, but we've been together 15 and a half years and

You know, we just kept plugging away at it and because we love each other and that's that's how healthy relationships work. So I'm really it's really such a special thing to hear about your relationship with Jesse and how that that it's just not a superficial. You know, you don't look a certain way, therefore we're done. I love that, you know.

Mike Ergo (09:49.106)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (09:57.842)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (09:58.013)
Yeah, for sure.

Lindsay Hiken (10:03.487)
I think there is a lot of confusion amongst the lay people of in terms of transgender that the person who's transgender is also gay. And I think that's really something that people, I don't know if it's like a taught thing, but I think it's a thing that's out there. And

I said to somebody, well, they're not necessarily gay because they're transgender in the sense that if there's a man who was with a woman like you and Jesse, for example. And so is that generally true or is that that it's not like that? Or is it mostly true? Or I mean, it's just hard. think if you could talk a little bit about that, it's very hard for just straight, regular, not regular. you know what I mean?

straight run of the mill is what I mean. People to kind of process that.

Maddie Valley (11:04.229)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (11:08.208)
Yeah, definitely there's this, I don't know if it's a pop culture thing, I don't know if it's just the way we're raised, but we see that. So if there was a guy that was interested in a trans woman society, maybe not so much today, but definitely back in the 90s would say that they were gay. Definitely that's

not the case now. And I wouldn't even if if that was me back in the 90s, I wouldn't have thought that either. Just a man with a woman. And then, you know, it's it's, it's kind of like, I love the the pansexual saying there, it's hearts, not parts. So, you know, throwing that label on there.

Lindsay Hiken (11:55.501)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (11:56.504)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (11:59.592)
that yes, I'm gay or I'm lesbian or bisexual. It's that I'm more into the heart of a person and not what's in their pants.

Lindsay Hiken (12:10.039)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (12:10.31)
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. It just seems constrictive to have to fit oneself into specific labels that were created. So just saying, I'm a person who loves this person. It seems much more simple than me that way.

Maddie Valley (12:27.686)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (12:29.657)
And I like that because I think as humans, we try to put everything in a bucket so we can like comprehend, you know, we have to do that all the time just for life, just in general to comprehend things. But when it comes to a topic that's complex like this, I mean, we're trying to fit things in a bucket. So.

I mean, if the bucket is hearts, not parts, then like, okay, can understand that. And hopefully the listeners that kind of clears things up for the listeners, because I think, like you're saying in pop culture, people have tried to put it in like a homosexual bucket, just because we're like, well, you don't know what's happening. And so we're kind of like, let's find a bucket and we're just gonna put it in this thing and it's not even really relevant.

Mike Ergo (13:08.475)
Right.

Mike Ergo (13:15.538)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:18.765)
Well, I think the other thing that we wanted to talk about is, you know, just your sort of athletic endeavors get into that a little bit more because one of the things I felt after our last conversation was that it was an important conversation, but also like you're just a person who's an athlete who also coaches like it has nothing to do with your background as a trans athlete. It's more of just like you're an athlete.

So I'd like to hear just a little bit more about your journey to Ironman. We did talk about some of it a little bit, but kind of where are you today? It sounds like you have goals to go to Kona. And I'd like to hear a little bit more about that.

Maddie Valley (14:03.366)
I saw the 20... what was it? 2014? 2013? It had to have been 2014 because Sebastian Kienle was in the video, the Anything is Possible video. I saw that in 2015 and I was like, I don't know what this is, but swimming and biking and running in Hawaii one right after the other sounds incredible. And so I would tell people, I was like, I want to be an Ironman. I want to be an Ironman.

Mike Ergo (14:13.308)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (14:29.718)
Mm.

Maddie Valley (14:33.39)
And they were like, so you're in the triathlon. I was like, I don't know what that is, but I want to be an Ironman. And I didn't respect it. didn't really respect the distance. thought, I'm a backcountry ranger. I hike 50 miles in the weekend. I run 5Ks. I'm pretty competitive with that. I rode my bike once for 56 miles. Surely I could just go show up in Oceanside and just go have the day, right?

Mike Ergo (14:39.624)
Hahaha.

Lindsay Hiken (14:49.763)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (15:02.246)
And so I failed miserably I- swam that it was still when we did- age group mass starts and so I swam up to- the start they fired the cannon I immediately swam over to the first lifeguard and I said take me out of the water I've made a huge mistake- they took me out and as I was driving back up to- north.

Mike Ergo (15:10.952)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (15:32.24)
That was still kind of like a really cool experience. I might want to like kind of check this out a little bit more. so signed back up for Oceanside 2017, learned how to swim this time, went to the YMCA for four lessons and thought, okay, I'm good to go now. Four lessons in, I know how to swim. Showed up, failed immediately in the swim again. And I had gotten about...

Mike Ergo (15:36.114)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (15:58.086)
80 to 90 percent done with the swim course before I was pulled out of the water. And so my sister, Toni, the one that did was down at Santa Rosa with us. She's like, let's let's do the half Ironman in Maine. We'll do it together. She she actually trained. I swam maybe a little bit more, biked a little bit more and ran a little bit more and was again pulled out of the water.

Mike Ergo (16:08.568)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (16:27.031)
So I said, if I want to do this, really need to, I need to figure things out. So I accidentally signed up for the full Ironman in Arizona. I thought I had signed up for the half, but I didn't understand why it cost $400 more than the half, but that should have been my first clue. And so I thought, okay, well, I just spent $800 on this race. I really want to do this. I should get a coach. And so I got a coach.

Lindsay Hiken (16:35.843)
Yeah

Lindsay Hiken (16:39.769)
All

Lindsay Hiken (16:44.331)
Ha ha.

Maddie Valley (16:57.187)
They took me all the way to Arizona. They did help me with Santa Rosa. I was successful at both of those. I loved it and then thought my bib number in Arizona was 2028 and my bib number in Santa Rosa was 38. And so that's how old I would be in 2028. So I said, okay, I'm going to Kona in 2028. My bib numbers have told me this, I'm doing it.

Lindsay Hiken (17:00.217)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (17:22.807)
So.

Maddie Valley (17:27.88)
that I think the, the legacy program was still 10 races back then, or 10 years instead of 12 and 12 or whatever it was, or whatever it is. And so I thought, okay, well, that's, that's my ticket in. but after 2020, the rules changed. So now I'm on my, on my way to do 12 races in 12 years. I'm at race number seven now, and I have until 2030.

Mike Ergo (17:33.256)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (17:57.124)
to get there. but after I had that second or that first coach, it was really expensive at $3.50 a month for coaching. And I hadn't, it was we're rolling into COVID and everything and no races. So I couldn't justify paying for that anymore. I had a coach in between that I really loved.

Mike Ergo (18:18.471)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (18:24.164)
He definitely felt like I got my money's worth from him. He gave me like a race strategy, a nutrition plan, everything, everything that I wanted to be in a coach. And so the first coach was wonderful. He got me to where I needed to be, but the second coach was a perfect example of what I wanted to be in a coach. And so in 2020, I got my coaching certificate and said everything that Matt Shanks was, I'm gonna be exactly like him.

Mike Ergo (18:31.932)
Nice.

Maddie Valley (18:53.219)
he was the perfect coach, I want to be exactly like him. And so I've been coaching since 2020 and on my way to Kona.

Lindsay Hiken (19:03.639)
Awesome, wow.

Mike Ergo (19:04.685)
Did you go through the Ironman University for the coaching? Okay. How did that work?

Maddie Valley (19:07.5)
I did. Yeah. I loved it. It was a little outdated in 2020. They were still talking about Marinda Carfrae being the world champion and well, mean, she is a world champion, but setting the records and it just, you know, and since then, know, Daniela Reif had been the world champion for several years. So it was a little outdated, but-

Mike Ergo (19:19.1)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (19:25.5)
Right.

Maddie Valley (19:33.943)
They've since revamped it in the last couple years and it is phenomenal. The course material, the monthly webinars with new material, continuing education, the new course is incredible and I highly recommend it. Even if you're not going to coach, it does make you a better athlete. I became a better swimmer once I learned how to coach people how to swim.

Lindsay Hiken (20:01.273)
That makes a lot of sense, actually. That makes a lot of sense. Wanted to just touch on, it's a very funny start. It's like you were pretty stubborn in insisting that you didn't need to train, which I think is hilarious.

Mike Ergo (20:01.874)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (20:19.83)
Thanks.

Mike Ergo (20:19.911)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (20:24.281)
think a lot of people would got pulled out that first time. I've been like, this is terrifying. Let me join a masters or something. You're like, four lessons, I'm good. Which I just love. So are you doing, did you do an Iron Man this year already? are you, so you're, cause you're trying to do one a year, is that right?

Maddie Valley (20:44.707)
Yeah, I'm a little ahead of schedule because I did two in 2022 and two in 2024. And so I just did a half this year. And so my understanding is that it just needs to be an Ironman branded race during the 12 years and then 12 Ironmans in that 12 years. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to do one every year, at least I hope, because I don't want to have to then do another one.

Lindsay Hiken (21:00.596)
okay.

Mike Ergo (21:06.299)
I see.

Mike Ergo (21:14.33)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:14.563)
care.

Maddie Valley (21:15.138)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:17.465)
So you could do, could you do 12 halves and make it?

Maddie Valley (21:22.914)
So you have to do 12 fulls, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have to do 12 one each year, that you could do two a year, then do a half, two a year, then a half, or whatever.

Lindsay Hiken (21:26.349)
Okay.

Lindsay Hiken (21:33.585)
okay. Okay, so in a 12 year period, you need to do 12, basically. Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

Maddie Valley (21:40.642)
Correct. Yeah. And you have to complete them. You can't have DNF'd or did not start.

Mike Ergo (21:47.58)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (21:47.609)
I was gonna say, because if you can DNF, I'm almost there.

Mike Ergo (21:52.093)
Hahaha

Maddie Valley (21:52.169)
I know, right? I would be going to Kona so much sooner.

Lindsay Hiken (21:56.057)
Especially if they throw that DNS in there and it's like, well, she paid the money. She didn't even show up. I'm in.

Mike Ergo (22:00.232)
You had 12 registrations. Here you go. Yeah.

Maddie Valley (22:01.894)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (22:06.012)
What's, I'm curious, what's been your favorite race so far, Matty?

Maddie Valley (22:10.786)
I love Ironman Arizona just because it was my first. It's super spectator friendly. I just have a lot of really fond memories there. Ironman Alaska was also really incredible because that was my home for three years and I felt like I was racing at home. And then Chattanooga is just so much fun. Those hills are incredible. The run course is awful, but the swim when you...

Mike Ergo (22:19.506)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (22:28.637)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (22:36.487)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (22:39.734)
you exit the water you feel like a professional because you're out of the water like thirty minutes. At the full distance and so- I would definitely do Chattanooga again definitely do Arizona again Lake Placid is beautiful but the bike course terrifies me so.

Lindsay Hiken (22:45.719)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (22:57.507)
Why is that?

Maddie Valley (22:59.265)
injured in twenty twenty one like a few weeks before the race I crashed my bike and I thought I'd be all healed up and ready to go- but I didn't and then did the bike course and injured myself for like six months after that. I had a slight tear in my meniscus and- so that I'm I'm traumatized from the bike course there- and then in twenty twenty three I went to go return to go do it again.

Mike Ergo (23:18.277)
Oof.

Maddie Valley (23:29.225)
and got COVID when I racked my bike the day before, so it did not start. So I'm very traumatized by all of Lake Placid. But the bike car scares me because I'm afraid I'm going to get injured again, even though it's not realistic. I got no bike wreck beforehand.

Lindsay Hiken (23:33.642)
my god.

Mike Ergo (23:39.592)
I get it.

Mike Ergo (23:46.684)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (23:50.281)
Right, right. It's just that that feeling. I always feel like if you have a kind of a weird feeling about something, then that's when you are likely to get injured. You know, I've gotten off my mountain bike before because I've on something I did previously because I suddenly had like a creepy feeling and I was like, I'm going to mess this up because I feel weird. know.

Maddie Valley (23:52.264)
and yeah.

Maddie Valley (24:01.087)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (24:11.59)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (24:15.095)
I want to hear about Iron Man Alaska. Was the water free? Like to me, it just sounds when I think of Iron Man Alaska, I think of freezing cold and grizzly bears. where where exactly is it? And what's the course like?

Maddie Valley (24:29.792)
It was a one and done. It was in Juneau. So I had lived in Juneau for three years as an AmeriCorps volunteer. And so I knew I had worked on the trails that the run course was on. I drove the bike course twice a day because I lived out there out at the end of the road. So but I was in Juneau and the swim was in Auk Bay or sorry, Auk Lake and sorry they

they shortened the swim because it was too cold. They shortened it to a half iron distance and then it rained on us for the rest of the day. So we got a full 2.4 mile swim throughout the whole day. The bike course was along the coastline so it wasn't actually, I mean it was hilly but it was rolling hills with the topography of the coastline. It wasn't like

Mike Ergo (25:10.852)
Lindsay Hiken (25:15.136)
Oof.

Maddie Valley (25:28.8)
It wasn't like your Lake Placid Hills or Santa Rosa Hills. And then the run was a very hilly run, but it was through like a trail and then a little bit of running in town and around a rubber track for a little bit of it. it was a very interesting course altogether, but a lot of different rules from what we are normally used to. Normally,

Mike Ergo (25:32.626)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (25:57.938)
when you check in your bike or your bags the day before, there's no problem with checking in nutrition in the bags. Not that I normally do it, but you could leave nutrition overnight, but you couldn't because of bears or ravens stealing it. And then on the bike course and run course, they were very strict about the no littering policy because you would have thrown that down and then you would have had a caffeinated black bear coming after you at some point.

Mike Ergo (26:06.76)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (26:11.442)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:19.705)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (26:26.941)
my god.

Mike Ergo (26:27.164)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Maddie Valley (26:28.455)
I think there was sightings of black bears on the bike course and maybe even the run course too, but I definitely remember people talking about them on the bike course.

Lindsay Hiken (26:40.673)
I would love I mean, I like seeing bears, but I I do and I don't. You know, I've seen some in Tahoe. They're amazing. Didn't want to see any when I was in Montana recently because they're a little bit more aggressive out there. I just had an image of some bears showing up in transition and just ripping that thing to shreds.

Mike Ergo (26:57.544)
Oh, that's what happened in Tahoe when they had that for like what a three year stint. And I think, yeah, I think that was year two that that was just in series of calamities. I think first year it started snowing second year. Um, bears got into transition and ate everything. And then third year there's a fire. So they had to cancel it.

Lindsay Hiken (27:02.485)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did the bears come in?

Lindsay Hiken (27:19.927)
Yeah, that's the one I was registered for the fire one. Which, know, Tahoe is my favorite place in the world and I wish they still had a race there. But I mean, I give Iron Man they tried three times, you know, I mean, they gave it a good old college try and it's not going to happen. Unfortunately. What races do you have kind of in your mind that you would like to do still?

Mike Ergo (27:21.896)
Hehehehehe

Maddie Valley (27:46.463)
Jesse wants to do a travel to an international race. I have, I'm worried because I've DNF'd. I'm worried that I'm gonna spend all that money and travel across the world to DNF again and then have to pay an additional for an additional race in the same year to kind of make that fill that gap. So we're kind of like tossing around the idea of international.

Lindsay Hiken (27:50.713)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (28:09.692)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (28:15.071)
I've done a lot of really hard courses lately. Lake Placid multiple times now. Chattanooga, the run course, and Alaska was fairly challenging. But Texas to me, like I said last time, was probably the hardest course I've ever been on, just because it was so hot, it was so uncomfortable. I did not like the bike course because of how just, you know, the

Mike Ergo (28:21.042)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (28:35.673)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (28:39.452)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (28:44.658)
the riding on the interstate there with all those expansion cracks and draft packs and everything. So I don't know if I necessarily want to do another Hilly course, but Wisconsin, California, Arizona, I would go back and do Arizona again. But yeah, I'm open to suggestions.

Mike Ergo (28:51.596)
huh.

Lindsay Hiken (29:05.017)
Yeah, Wisconsin's. Wisconsin's definitely one that I think I would like to do if I ever decide to do triathlon again. I have family there for one thing, but also I've heard it's a really fun course that's not as challenging and you can just kind of focus on your performance and not not be freaking out by some some weird mountains and whatnot.

Mike Ergo (29:07.964)
Yeah, okay.

Mike Ergo (29:17.096)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (29:23.622)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (29:32.909)
So Mike, you're doing Oceanside, right?

Mike Ergo (29:35.4)
Yeah. Coming up in, I guess coming up, uh, March of 2026. Yes. So we'll be training for that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I did it in 2016 and it was a great race for me. was, it's the bike courses, a literal trip down memory lane. Cause you go into camp Pendleton, the Marine Corps base there. And so I get to.

Lindsay Hiken (29:41.163)
Awesome. I'm very happy for you on that. You're not just going to wing it when you show up.

Maddie Valley (29:45.245)
Yeah, good idea. more than four swims in.

Lindsay Hiken (29:51.705)
you

Mike Ergo (30:05.232)
see some of the places I'd walked around and trained.

Lindsay Hiken (30:10.967)
I know you used to be coached Mike, are you still coached or do you feel like at this point you know kind of what you need to do to get through it?

Mike Ergo (30:17.736)
I think for the half distance, I know what, what to do to get through it. If I was doing a full, I would go back with a coach for sure. Just cause that's, that's a lot of training to put on and I don't trust myself to periodize and increase it responsible, healthy increments.

Lindsay Hiken (30:36.717)
Right, right. Yeah, that makes sense. So Maddie, have some athletes now that you're coaching. And are they all Ironman distance or are they just a variety of triathlon?

Maddie Valley (30:50.301)
Yeah, it varies. I've coached just runners, trail runners, road runners from all various distances all the way up to Leadville 100. And then same thing with travel and sprint all the way up to Ironman. I see a lot of, here now that I'm in Savannah, I see a lot of military guys up at Fort Stewart.

Blanking on our, our, Blanking on our name here in Savannah. And then the four up in Augusta that want to do the half Ironman distance. And so I see a lot of those. There are a few that I've got that are, that just automatically just jump right up to the full distance. I, right now I've got varying, like I said, they could be, could be runners or just triathletes. I've got about 13 athletes all over the country at the moment. So, yeah.

Mike Ergo (31:26.897)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (31:47.176)
That's awesome.

Lindsay Hiken (31:48.529)
Mm-hmm. That is awesome. Do you use training peaks like the standard kind of things that people, tools people use to train or how do you kind of disseminate the information to people?

Maddie Valley (31:49.725)
Thanks.

Maddie Valley (31:59.192)
I was using Training Peaks up until last year at Lake Placid. was, the Ironman U tent was sitting right next to the Tri-Dot tent, and I just was listening to them all day long, showing the people what Tri-Dot was all about, showing the predictions of things and everything, and I was like, I'm working way harder than I need to. This doesn't make any sense.

Mike Ergo (32:25.404)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (32:28.716)
So I asked them what like so just tell me on this and- one of the try dot guys was like what what try to allows. You to do is do the fun part about your job to do the actual coaching to do the communication with your athletes the whole reason why we got into this was to share information. Talk to people and help them be successful try dot takes out all of the hard parts normally when I'd on board an

Mike Ergo (32:44.7)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (32:51.484)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (32:58.318)
eight hours on that first Monday and create their whole schedule for the next six months. then of course, then they like have travel come up or that they're sick or whatever. And so I'd have to go back in and change everything. Whereas Tridot has the whole plan already based on their current training, their genetics, their race day goals, everything in it. And it builds that structure around it.

Mike Ergo (33:04.7)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (33:08.079)
Ha

Lindsay Hiken (33:24.813)
Maddie Valley (33:27.097)
And so I don't have to do anything anymore as far as that. I can still go in and do all the tinkering and make specific changes to stuff. But I've had athletes in the past that they work really funky schedules, that they work changing schedules every week that I have to go in every day and change stuff. And so I'll use SEP as an example because I always use SEP as an example.

Mike Ergo (33:40.903)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (33:52.688)
When I created their plans, I created the paces and the efforts for the optimal time of day, which is that early morning. But Seph works on a weird schedule, and sometimes he might not even get to that workout till 10 p.m. at night. And now he's trying to achieve goals that were set up for 5 a.m. So instead of texting me at 9.50 and saying, hey, I'm about to start this workout, now he can go into Tridot, change his start time to his workout.

Mike Ergo (34:11.356)
Hmm.

Maddie Valley (34:19.644)
And it automatically updates all of his paces, all of his heart rate zones, everything. And so based on heat and humidity, based on the fact that he should be fatigued after the long day, all of those things. So he may have had a six minute 50 mile pace at five in the morning, but now at 10 o'clock at night, his target pace should now be seven 50 instead. Uh, so he's not running at the same effort. So it kind of takes all the overtraining out of things.

Lindsay Hiken (34:20.396)
Mike Ergo (34:21.256)
wow.

Mike Ergo (34:31.186)
Mm-hmm.

Maddie Valley (34:48.227)
So I've seen a lot of changes as far as their performances go all across the board. Grayson, every time he goes out and does a 5k, it's a new record for him because he's, we're able to kind of just adjust based on heat and humidity for every workout. So it's been, it's taken out a lot of the hard parts. So now I'm just like, hey, let's sit down, let's talk. What kind of gear are you bringing? Let's go over that. Let's go do a bike fit. Let's go out for a ride and check stuff out, you know.

Mike Ergo (35:03.239)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (35:16.636)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (35:17.679)
So it allows me to do the actual part that I wanted to do when I started.

Lindsay Hiken (35:22.775)
That's that's really cool. I'm not familiar at all with Tridot because I've only had coaches that use, you know, the standard training peaks. But if I if I'm ever coached again, I'm going to ask them to change or ask them what they're using, because it sounds amazing to have the change we based on like time of day and heat and humidity and what you've been doing all day. I mean, that would be that would be something that's so valuable because I didn't.

Maddie Valley (35:31.587)
Yeah.

Maddie Valley (35:36.763)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (35:50.935)
I didn't have that before and I was kind of like, you're talking about like, I might do it before work, but I might also do it after I've been sitting at a desk for eight hours. And those are two very different feelings in my body, right? This set person sounds amazing too. You're like a six minute 50 mile pace. that?

Maddie Valley (36:04.346)
for sure.

Maddie Valley (36:10.074)
I don't actually know if that's what it is off the of my head. was using that as an example to make SEP sound really great.

Lindsay Hiken (36:13.465)
Okay.

Mike Ergo (36:16.508)
Ha ha.

Lindsay Hiken (36:16.589)
Yeah, I was like, holy crap. Mike, what other questions do you have, if any?

Mike Ergo (36:25.414)
Yeah, what's next for you this year, Matty?

Maddie Valley (36:28.748)
I just had a half marathon in November. I don't know if I'll get in another triathlon for this year. I'm open for suggestions for next year's. I haven't picked out a race yet. Tridot has a nice tool called RaceX where you can put in all the various races that are already in the system and put them into simulation mode based on your current training.

where you would stack up for that. And so I've put in all of the American races and a few of the international ones. So right now I'm kind of leaning towards Wisconsin, Copenhagen, and Arizona. So we'll see.

Mike Ergo (37:11.56)
Cool, very cool.

Lindsay Hiken (37:12.061)
wow. Wow. I know several people that have done New Zealand and had success there and enjoyed it, too. But it's a haul. mean, it's a it's a flight. It's a flight. It is a journey for sure. And if you think you might DNF, that's definitely not where you want to go on a 13 hour flight or whatever. But I've heard that the course is beautiful and that it's a really well put together race.

Mike Ergo (37:23.624)
That's a journey.

Mike Ergo (37:31.24)
Ha

Lindsay Hiken (37:41.131)
I always thought it would be something that I would like to do if I ever got my act together to, you know, travel and bring, yeah, do all of that stuff. Copenhagen sounds pretty cool, though, too, I think.

Mike Ergo (37:48.232)
another fall.

Mike Ergo (37:54.62)
Yes.

Maddie Valley (37:57.079)
Yeah, we can make a whole whole vacation out of it.

Lindsay Hiken (38:00.769)
Yeah, yeah, that's what people I know that did, did New Zealand did they, they went like a week before or stayed, you know, 10 days after a friend of mine from my team got there and then got sick. She was there for the week before. And so she, they had the half on the same day or the day after or something like that. So she raised the half instead of the full just to

do something after you flew down there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, gosh, I don't know. I feel like we did it. What do you guys think?

Mike Ergo (38:26.994)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Maddie Valley (38:27.714)
Yeah, make it worth it, you know.

Mike Ergo (38:36.488)
think so. I think so.

Lindsay Hiken (38:39.993)
Cool, Maddie, I appreciate you coming on the show again. you know, let's have you back in a year or so when you figure out which race you're going to do and maybe do it so we can get a race report and all of that good stuff. And we'll put links to your coaching information in the show notes so that anyone out there who's interested in getting coached by Maddie and using TryDot, because that sounds really cool. You know, they can check out the link and talk to you about it.

Mike Ergo (38:43.548)
Yes, thank you.

Maddie Valley (39:09.613)
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's always great to see you both.

Mike Ergo (39:14.428)
Yeah, thanks, Matty.

Lindsay Hiken (39:14.457)
Yeah, you too. Alrighty, folks, if you would like to help out the show, I would ask that you go to our YouTube. You can just go into YouTube and look for Ginger and Chocolate podcast and then just subscribe because all of this kind of activity we're asking you to do helps our show get recognized. And you never know. Someone who maybe needs to hear it, maybe needs to hear Maddie could stumble upon the show and it could change their life. So.

If you could do that for us, that would be amazing. Thanks so much and we will see you next week. Bye.

Mike Ergo (39:49.064)
Later.