The Heart of a Fighter: Derek Fitzgerald's Story

Summary

In this episode, Mike and Lindsay welcome Derek Fitzgerald, who shares his incredible journey from being a workaholic and overweight to facing a life-threatening health crisis that led to a cancer diagnosis and ultimately a heart transplant. Derek recounts the challenges he faced during his illness, including heart failure and the emotional turmoil of waiting for a transplant. He emphasizes the importance of resilience, the support of loved ones, and the profound realization of life after receiving a second chance. Derek's story is one of hope, determination, and the will to honor the gift of life. In this conversation, Derek Fitzgerald shares his inspiring journey of recovery after receiving a heart transplant. He discusses the challenges he faced, the mindset shifts that helped him embrace life, and the importance of resilience and perspective in overcoming adversity. The dialogue explores the psychological impact of his experiences, the significance of organ donation, and the responsibility he feels to honor his donor's gift by living life to the fullest. Throughout the discussion, the themes of endurance, personal growth, and the choice to show up in life are emphasized, providing listeners with valuable insights and motivation.

Takeaways

• Derek's journey to Ironman began with a health crisis.
• He faced a cancer diagnosis that changed his life.
• Heart failure forced him to confront his mortality.
• Derek's resilience helped him through tough times.
• The heart transplant was a pivotal moment in his life.
• He learned to appreciate the gift of life after transplant.
• Derek emphasizes the importance of support from loved ones.
• His story highlights the power of determination and will.
• He transformed his life through exercise and recovery.
• Derek's experience serves as an inspiration to others. Recovery is a personal journey that varies for everyone.
• Many heart transplant recipients gain weight, but staying active is crucial.
• Seeing someone else succeed can inspire you to push your limits.
• The psychological impact of a transplant can be profound.
• Living in 'bonus time' encourages a different perspective on life.
• It's important to embrace challenges rather than retreat from them.
• Pain and discomfort are often part of the journey, but they don't define it.
• Showing up to the moment is a conscious choice we all can make.
• Honoring the gift of life means living fully and generously.
• Organ donation can transform lives and should be encouraged.

Keywords

Ironman, cancer, heart transplant, health journey, resilience, personal story, motivation, recovery, life lessons, overcoming adversity, heart transplant, resilience, endurance, mindset, organ donation, inspiration, psychological impact, recovery, life lessons, personal growth

Thanks for listening to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. Check out our website at gingerandchocolate.com to get in touch with us. Follow us on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram @ginger_and_chocolate_podcast; and please subscribe to the show and select automatic downloads on your podcast app.

Transcript

Lindsay Hiken (00:00.162)
Huh?

Mike Ergo (00:01.321)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the ginger and chocolate podcast. I'm your cohost Mike. I'm here with Lindsay and we've got a special guest. Derek Fitzgerald is here today. So Lindsay, how are you?

Lindsay Hiken (00:10.946)
doing well. actually kind of slept last night, not through the night. I never do that, but I got sleep. So I am stoked this morning. Seriously.

Mike Ergo (00:20.447)
Praise the Lord, yes. Yeah, I got sleep too. Welcome back to Middle-Age Talk with Mike and Lindsay. But yeah, we got a good episode today. Got a friend of mine that I've known for a long time, Derek Fitzgerald, who's quite the accomplished guy and good friend. just, Derek, welcome to the show, man. Glad to have you here.

Lindsay Hiken (00:27.864)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (00:33.973)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (00:46.513)
Thanks guys, thanks to both of you. I appreciate you bringing me on. This is awesome.

Mike Ergo (00:51.795)
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, our paths intersected, pre COVID. a lifetime ago and was, was it, was the first time we met at the Ironman premiere or was it before at Ironman Santa Rosa? Because I think I get the two confused.

Derek Fitzgerald (01:11.459)
Yeah, you know what, my memory is just Swiss cheese. you know, I, it was one of the, think it was at the Ironman world premiere, the world champion premiere up in New York.

Mike Ergo (01:25.213)
I think so, yeah, I think so. Yeah, we met up there, you and your wife, and then we met up again at Ironman Santa Rosa, I think the next year or the year after.

Lindsay Hiken (01:29.23)
Do you wanna?

Derek Fitzgerald (01:35.535)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (01:37.688)
So how did you meet while you were there? Like how did you guys actually bump into each other and start talking?

Derek Fitzgerald (01:44.549)
Well, I think it was fate, whatever you want to call it. Mike and I blocked eyes from across the room and slowly closed in on each other. No, mean, the Ironman community is a small community. And the Ironman Foundation community, which we were both a part of, is an even smaller community. And we all kind of would give the old chin nose raise like, hey, what's up? I know you.

Lindsay Hiken (01:49.238)
you

Mike Ergo (01:49.897)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (01:55.455)
You

Mike Ergo (02:01.577)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (02:13.513)
Yeah. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (02:14.201)
Yeah. So I think, you know what it was? They put us all in line alphabetically and it was ergo Fitzgerald and we're just standing there making small talk. Realized we had some mutual friends and, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (02:24.191)
yes.

Lindsay Hiken (02:26.798)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (02:29.567)
That's right.

Lindsay Hiken (02:31.266)
Huh. So it was fate. I love a good head, my good head nod during an Iron Man or Half Iron Man. I get those from the only other one or two black people out on the course were like, Exactly.

Mike Ergo (02:32.755)
Yeah, it was, yeah.

Mike Ergo (02:42.143)
I see you. I see you. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (02:42.993)
Bye

Yep.

Mike Ergo (02:48.497)
I've had that experience once and it was actually at a soccer match in Oakland. It was Paraguay versus Mexico and like mostly Hispanic people there and I saw one other white guy. We gave each other the nod. I'm like, that's what it's like. So

Lindsay Hiken (03:04.014)
Well, I don't know, where should we start guys? so much to talk about.

Mike Ergo (03:07.913)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (03:14.567)
Yeah, Derek, you got quite the story, You know, I guess we could back up and talk about, you know, what brought you to do Iron Man. I mean, everyone has their own story and journey here and it's usually something significant in their life. No one just says like, you know what, I'm kind of bored and might as well do an Iron Man.

Derek Fitzgerald (03:34.885)
Really that, that, that I thought that summed up my story to a T. I wasn't doing anything that day. I happened to have spandex on it just seemed appropriate. no, think that, for me, I was a workaholic. I own my own business. I was overweight. I had a goal and a career path and I was going to achieve that.

Mike Ergo (03:38.596)
Ha

Mike Ergo (03:42.536)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (03:47.229)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (04:04.931)
that goal come hell or high water. And then I had a road trip to North Carolina for work. And I stopped off halfway around Virginia in my uncle's place. Took a pit stop there. My stump was doing back flips. And I was like, hey, everybody, love you. Hey, I gotta go to the bathroom real quick. I'll go up there, bear it back.

Swear I'll be right back. I won't make this long. And then started bleeding when I went to the bathroom to, you know, to start your day off with something with way too much information. And it wasn't just bleeding. was hemorrhaging. And went through eight months of doctors sticking everything down me and up me that they possibly could try and find out why I was bleeding every two weeks. And it was not.

Mike Ergo (04:57.063)
Yes.

Derek Fitzgerald (05:03.363)
normal. I'm not normal. They were about ready to let me go on with my life saying, hey, you know what, everyone has a thing. Maybe this is your thing.

Mike Ergo (05:12.339)
Yeah, that's your thing. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (05:13.901)
Hey.

Derek Fitzgerald (05:14.209)
cause they weren't able to find anything, but there was one shadow on one scan that, that looked weird, but it was at a place where neither of the probes that they were sticking up near down, could reach. And, they wanted to do a quick outpatient exploratory surgery. And, I said, we just want to take a peek. Probably nothing outpatient in zip, zip, zip out. You're done. We just want to rule one last thing out. And.

They opened me up. They put me under, they opened me up and in the middle of the surgery, they wake me up long enough to say, we found something we weren't expecting to find. We'd like your permission to take it out now. And I didn't know what they were talking about. I was high as a kite. I was feeling no pain. I was like, yeah, sure. Have at it. You know, take whatever you like. And then woke up from surgery with the half circle.

of doctors and my family. Everybody has long faces. Everybody looks very, very solemn and somber. I'm like, is this for me? Did I die? What's going on? And ultimately, they had found a tumor the size of a grapefruit in my stomach. I was overweight, so they didn't see it distending my belly. was 5'9", I was probably 2'10".

you know, I'm probably 170 now. So I was, I was chunky and they weren't expecting it. What I found out later was that I had cancer and that this type of cancer they had ruled out completely because it's only normally found in elderly African-American males. And they looked at me and said, well, you know, and they weren't expecting it at all. And

So they started asking, mean, do you have any mixed racial ancestry that we should know about? Because this is really like point, like 2 % chance that a middle-aged white guy guessed this. And I was like, I don't know, but I'm not normal. And so went through that.

Derek Fitzgerald (07:40.889)
I had to, they severed my, what was supposed to be like a couple quick incisions turned into opening me up from just below my sternum to just below my waistline and rearranging my guts. And I had to learn to walk again because they had severed all my abdominals. So went through that and then they're like, when you get strong enough to withstand the barrage,

Mike Ergo (07:56.851)
Oof.

Lindsay Hiken (07:57.2)
Derek Fitzgerald (08:09.371)
we're going to put you through chemotherapy just to make sure that we got everything precautionary measure. I was like, okay. And so, went through that and there was one drug in particular in my chemotherapy regimen. they're like, listen, Derek, we usually hang everything from a bag. Your body can do what it needs to with it. This one drug, a nurse has to kneel next to you in a chair and

push the plunger on this syringe that's gonna go in your arms, this red medicine, they call it the red devil, adriamycin, and like it's exceptionally toxic. honestly, you know, we know more about, know, what it can do is if it gets out of your bloodstream and into the rest of your body, it can damage your heart, but we know more about hearts than we do about cancer. And this is

Mike Ergo (09:08.329)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (09:08.881)
best way to treat your cancer. So we hope that it doesn't damage your heart. Honestly, there's like a 2 % risk of it getting out of your bloodstream and damaging your heart. I was like, 2%, huh? Okay. All right. It's not. They told me that it was a 2 % risk that, you know, I had the cancer that I had. And I was like, all right, let's do it. And shortly after, I mean, I was, I was in chemo for five months.

Mike Ergo (09:23.507)
Yeah, decent odds, right?

Lindsay Hiken (09:30.348)
Right.

Derek Fitzgerald (09:37.527)
And shortly after that, I was in remission and I was on my way and I was back to like, Hey, I'm out of shape. I'm overweight. Why don't I get back into like walking or something? And, and I realized that I couldn't walk a flight of stairs. couldn't walk the hill from my parking lot to my office without sitting on the, on the sidewalk and just heaving. Like couldn't breathe.

Mike Ergo (10:06.461)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (10:07.436)
Was this from being overweight or was this just from purely from the surgeries and things?

Derek Fitzgerald (10:12.549)
Well, what I didn't know at the time was that the drug, Adrian Myson, had damaged my heart and put me into heart failure.

Mike Ergo (10:21.663)
Hmm

Derek Fitzgerald (10:24.333)
So I went, and there were like sleepless nights. I'm kind of stubborn. And my wife, Erin, will definitely vouch for that. My ex-wife will definitely vouch for that. But I went to the ER, like I would go to the ER in the middle of the night and I tell them I couldn't breathe. I felt like I couldn't breathe. And they're like, well, you've got pneumonia.

Lindsay Hiken (10:38.849)
you

Derek Fitzgerald (10:53.305)
I didn't have pneumonia. And then I'd go back another time and they go, well, you've got a plurus, you've got fluid built up in your lungs. Well, I was starting to get fluid built up in my lungs. wasn't from a virus. It was because I was in heart failure. And so finally one night I go to the ER and I had stopped asking, I'd stopped telling my family that I was going to the ER. was like, it's one more sleepless night for everybody else. I'm just going to go.

Mike Ergo (11:17.918)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (11:22.259)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (11:22.929)
And I drove myself to the ER and they decided to do a cardiac stress test on me. And, uh, they do our thing. I'm like, all right, whatever. I'm just laying in the ER at three in the morning and this doctor sits by my bedside and he says, how you doing? How you feeling? I was like, not great, but I'm okay. It's like, I know you've had a rough year because this was only three months after I was declared in remission.

Mike Ergo (11:51.327)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (11:51.973)
said, I know you've had a rough year, but I'm afraid I've got some more bad news. You're in heart failure. you know, basically, I don't know what kind of life you expected, but ultimately, we need to kind of recalibrate what that looks like for you. And we're gonna do some things. We're try and...

Mike Ergo (12:15.294)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (12:21.873)
You know, fight this with some medications, some exercise, some diet changes, some recommendations, and hopefully we can bring up your heart performance to a level that is still damaged, but you're not going to feel what you're feeling right now. Unfortunately, that never happened for me. I got worse and worse and worse until I was sleeping for 23 hours a day.

Mike Ergo (12:40.029)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (12:52.483)
awake for one hour a day. I was awake, was coughing and hacking so badly because I got to the point where I could no longer lie down flat at night because my heart was no longer strong enough to pump the fluids out of my lung. If I laid flat, I would drown in my own fluids. So I had to be propped up in bed and I would stay awake for days on end until finally my body collapsed and I passed out for a day.

Mike Ergo (12:52.681)
Good lord.

Derek Fitzgerald (13:20.881)
Um, but then it got to the point where I was asleep for 23 hours a day. And when I was awake, I was coughing so bad. thought my spine was going to snap into.

Mike Ergo (13:29.599)
Oof.

Derek Fitzgerald (13:31.377)
And there was a period in my life when I thought that who I was, I identified who I was with what I did. I was a tech company owner that invented technologies. you know, I, I, that's who I wanted to be and that's who I was. And when your whole world shrinks down to you in bed, you can't even lay down and it's

you know, a half foot on all sides of you. And that's your whole worldview. And you can no longer picture a future like, you know, it's so weird. I took this for granted because until I experienced this, had never experienced.

Mike Ergo (14:02.153)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (14:22.072)
not seeing myself in the future.

Mike Ergo (14:24.639)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (14:24.95)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (14:26.607)
Because it was always, well, one day I'm going to do this. And I was like, man, if I close my eyes, I don't know if I'm going to open them again. And whatever grip I had or I thought I had on life, it was like just out of my reach. And I was holding on by the slimmest of threads.

Mike Ergo (14:45.971)
Was that terrifying or were you just resigned to it?

Derek Fitzgerald (14:51.971)
It is terrifying. but you also resign yourself to it. it got to the point where I realized that I was not living. so I found out, in August of 2010, that, that I was, you know, that all the efforts to, to improve the performance of my heart had failed and that I was worse off.

Mike Ergo (14:58.354)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (15:22.085)
than I had and that was over the span of seven years, just a gradual decline. And they put me on the heart transplant waiting list in August of 2010. And at that point I was like, all right, I'm done. I mean, I'm...

Mike Ergo (15:24.627)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (15:39.951)
What's the success rate of heart transplantation? And that scared the crap out of me. You know, I thought, you know what? It's like swapping an engine out mid flight in an airplane. Who wants to go through that? That's like, man. And so I looked everywhere. I went online and I researched what stem cell research they were doing and therapies they were doing overseas.

Mike Ergo (15:46.035)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (15:52.974)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (15:53.404)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (16:08.473)
Now the last thing I wanted to do was somebody to crack my chest open and put somebody else's heart, if they could even find a heart in my chest, because the whole point of the transplantation system, the organ donation system, is that you have to hope to get worse, to get higher up on the list, to ever have a chance at receiving something that could save your life, but might kill you.

Mike Ergo (16:08.681)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (16:32.371)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (16:34.103)
And it's a inverted, it messes with your head. So I knew I wasn't living anymore. And at a certain point I knew that I either wanted to get worse enough to have a shot at living or I just wanted to die.

Mike Ergo (16:43.177)
Can you

Mike Ergo (16:55.54)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (16:56.527)
I wanted one or the other.

Lindsay Hiken (16:59.212)
Yeah, makes sense. Actually, I was wondering about I was going to ask about that. But that makes complete sense to me because you it sounds like you were just living in purgatory.

Derek Fitzgerald (17:11.375)
Yeah, it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, not that I have any enemies, yeah, it's, you know, there's some real pieces of garbage out there and I wouldn't wish it on them.

Mike Ergo (17:23.956)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (17:28.12)
So did you, I'm dying to know, did you get on the list, did you get bumped up and get a heart or what happened?

Derek Fitzgerald (17:35.523)
Yeah, yeah. mean, along the way I died a couple of times. Like I said, I'm stubborn. came back. And ultimately, ultimately, yeah, I went to a, I went to a, I went for a follow-up chest x-ray after having pneumonia Christmas of 2010. And, you know, I'd picked up pneumonia from all the nieces and nephews running around sniffling into their hands.

you know, rubbing my bald head, thinking it's cool. And I got pneumonia. And so I go for a follow-up chest x-ray and I just kind of trudge in, I get my exam done, I'm trudging my way back to my car, I get a phone call from the technicians who took my scan. And they say, Mr. Sterile, we're not supposed to call you until we've consulted with the attending physician on your scans, but...

We can't not call you. It looks like you're having some kind of cardiac event right now. Do you have a cardiologist? If you do, you need to see them immediately. And if you don't, you need to get to the emergency room right now. I was like, okay. So I was there with my then wife, my now ex-wife. And I looked at her and I said, you know what? I just so happened to have...

a follow-up four-month appointment with my cardiologist tomorrow. I'm not going to go to the ER. At this point, if I go to the ER now, they're going to be reading through my medical chart for the next 24 hours just to get me to the point where my cardiologist will figure out tomorrow. And I called my cardiologist's office and I said, hey, any chance I can get in there today? They're like, no, he's fully booked today. Totally booked, totally swamped. I didn't tell him it was an emergency. I was like, okay.

Mike Ergo (19:12.346)
Mmm... forever.

Mike Ergo (19:26.449)
Mm-hmm. Of course not.

Derek Fitzgerald (19:30.161)
I was like, I'll just go back home. I want to be home. If I'm going to die today, I want to be in my own bed. spent too many hours in hospital beds. It's not fun. So I went home and I spent my time awake for as long as I could. The next day, got up. We drove out to my cardiologist's office. I walked into the waiting room, sat down.

Mike Ergo (19:38.729)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (19:57.571)
nurse calls me back after a few minutes to the examination room. sits down on the table, pulls the paper out over the table. I sit on the table. She takes my, she was a new nurse. hadn't seen her before. She takes my heart rate, my pulse. goes, do you work out? you an athlete? Cause your heart rate's really slow. I was like, no, no, I'm not an athlete. And I wasn't, was, I was dying. And so,

Lindsay Hiken (20:17.165)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (20:25.839)
She takes my vitals, leaves the room, door closed, door closed and I collapsed.

And as I'm collapsed, my wife was trying to catch me from falling off the table. Doctor walks in the door. He's like, Hey, you know, getting ready to greet me. sees what's going on. He rushes in the two of them hoist me back on the table. Tries to get a blood pressure reading on one arm. Can't get it. Tries the other arm. No reading. And he's like, all right, call a helicopter, an ambulance. Derek is going to the hospital. Now.

He's going for his heart now. and I, you know, I could hear things going on. I mean, was flopping around like a dead fish, but I knew what was going on. And, and I knew that I was going to go to the hospital and I was only two ways I was coming out of that hospital. One was with a heart or two was just, you know, going to the morgue and I was okay with that.

Mike Ergo (21:02.239)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (21:21.759)
Mmm.

Mike Ergo (21:28.936)
Yeah.

You'd resigned yourself to that at that point.

Derek Fitzgerald (21:34.031)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:36.002)
I have a question about the heart transplant. Do they have to match you? I've heard like in other types of transplant. So you have to find a heart and it has to be a heart that that matches. Wow.

Derek Fitzgerald (21:48.111)
Yes. And, and, know, the same body size, body composition, same blood type. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be a perfect match to the point that a lot of times you'll go in for a transplant and everybody has the, I think the picture of like the, organ in a little like cooler, the little igloo cooler and the, the, medical team is rushing in from a helicopter. The

Lindsay Hiken (22:09.059)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (22:09.599)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (22:15.429)
The candidate for transplant is on the operating table already. They've already opened up. So in my case, you know, a heart, would have opened, cracked the sternum, you know, cracked the ribs, opened up the chest. Then they get the igloo next to the patient. They open it up and then they actually look at the cavity in the chest to the organ. And if they don't think it's a match, a lot of people get sewn up and they get put back into waiting because it's not an exact match.

Mike Ergo (22:44.829)
Oof.

Derek Fitzgerald (22:47.057)
So you don't know, they say, all right, we're gonna give this your best shot or our best shot, but you can wake up from the surgery and you could be in the same place you are right now, or worse.

Derek Fitzgerald (23:03.153)
So I was in the hospital, they rushed me to the hospital and I found out later, you know, it's amazing, the color of our skin, I know I'm pale, but the color of our skin has so much to do with the amount of blood flowing through our veins. And at that point, my heart function was like 5%. Average is 55 to 65%, mine was 5%.

They didn't know how I was still alive and I was gray. All color had drained from my body. I looked like a dead person to the point that I spoke to the admitting nurse later. I met her and she said, sometimes a patient comes in and we just know, we just know that they're in their final moments and all we can do is just start praying for that person. And we prayed for you, Derek. And so I was in there.

And yeah, January 8th, 2011, transplant coordinator comes into my bedroom, my, not my bedroom, but my, the room I was in. And she's crying. And my family had been gathered by my side. Most of the time I was asleep and they were gathered by my side and they were holding my hands and I didn't know that they were there, but I was awake for this hour.

And she says, Derek, we think we found your heart. Do you still want to go through with this? And I said, I don't really have a choice, do I? And she's like, no, you don't.

Mike Ergo (24:43.807)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (24:44.945)
I was like, okay.

Let's do this. And I kind of exhaled. And my family is like crying tears of joy that I have a shot at life. And all I could think about was that there's some other family out there surrounding another bedside of someone who was told that was not coming back.

Lindsay Hiken (24:56.43)
All right. Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (24:59.934)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (25:12.681)
hmm it's a sobering thought

Derek Fitzgerald (25:13.665)
and

It is. is. I was, you know, ultimately both of us, me and that other person were supposed to die that day.

should have died that day. But the world brought us together, the universe brought us together, and we're still both here. That's the day that I stopped thinking of myself as a me and started thinking of myself as a we. They rolled me into surgery that night, and the next thing I know, I'm waking up.

Lindsay Hiken (25:47.778)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (25:57.549)
in a recovery room and there's all these machines surrounding me, tubes coming out of me, I'm intubated, I can't talk. But beeping and whirring and pumping and thudding and clicking and like a bank of machines keeping me alive. And then I...

Then I realized I went back and I'm listening to all the sounds and I realized that the thudding that I was hearing was actually a heartbeat that I was hearing in my ears as I was laying on the pillow. I realized that at a certain time in my life, I could actually hear my heartbeat in my ears. And it's an overwhelming feeling. And I knew at that moment that I had been given a chance. And...

Lindsay Hiken (26:34.892)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (26:35.113)
Hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (26:53.569)
not a guarantee, just a chance. And I wanted to do everything I could to honor the gift that had been given to me, to repay this person who I, this complete stranger who I had no idea who they were, to honor the gift and be the best custodian of that gift that I could possibly be, be the best human being that I could possibly be.

knowing that one day I would meet this person and I'd have to look them in their eyes and say that I did everything in my power to earn the gift that they gave me. It's an awesome, awesome responsibility.

Mike Ergo (27:36.967)
Yeah, that could be overwhelming to think about.

Derek Fitzgerald (27:42.885)
So yeah, that's how I got my heart.

Lindsay Hiken (27:43.062)
Yeah. Did you ever meet any of the people related to this person? mean, do they do they they don't really put you guys together, right? Because it's difficult or how does that work?

Derek Fitzgerald (27:57.113)
It's extremely difficult and there's a lot of there's so when you go on the transplant waiting list, you're assigned a social worker. When you become a donor family, you're assigned a social worker. And so they recommend that you do reach out after about three months after the meds have kind of tied down and you're thinking like sanely again, because you're jacked up on everything to in order to survive. So I wrote a letter to my donor family.

I sent it to my social worker. My social worker blacked out anything that could be personally identifiable. And then they forwarded that letter on to my daughter family. I know they received it. But understandably, they haven't responded. Of the two of us who were supposed to die that day, I got the better end of the stick.

Lindsay Hiken (28:31.288)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (28:51.138)
Right. I was thinking about that when you were talking. I was thinking about how how envious I would be if I was in the other family, you know, how envious that it wasn't reversed. Not that I wish anyone to die, but you know, it's like. How come? You know, not my person, so I could see I could see that I could see it both ways. I could also see, you know, feeling like, hey, this is.

Derek Fitzgerald (29:02.886)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (29:03.006)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (29:08.303)
Right, right.

Mike Ergo (29:09.416)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (29:19.65)
they're part of them is still here, you know.

Derek Fitzgerald (29:22.723)
Yeah, and part of them is still here. I talk to my donor every day. I ask them how they're feeling. I ask them what they're feeling up to today. And I've had a lot of experiences post-transplant, like running my first 5K eight months after my transplant. Now, I...

Mike Ergo (29:23.081)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (29:51.085)
In the months following, so after the transplant, I was on a cardiac and diabetic diet. went from 210 in weight down to about 128 pounds. Skin and bone, completely atrophied. And if somebody wasn't there to lift me off a bed, I couldn't lift my head more than an inch off of a pillow. So if someone wasn't there to help lift me off the bed, I couldn't get to my feet. Completely reliant on other people taking care of me.

Mike Ergo (30:02.367)
my god. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (30:20.641)
and so, I, the only thing I could do and exercise was I could clench and unclench my butt cheeks. And so I wanted to be. Yeah. So, and I had all these bed sores and all this stuff, but, I wanted to be self-sufficient so badly that, I would move, I would use my butt cheeks to pull myself off of bed, fall to the floor.

Lindsay Hiken (30:30.626)
Hmm. Getting that booty workout sounds like.

Mike Ergo (30:34.292)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (30:50.767)
And then I could basically army crawl to a vertical surface, push my face up a wall, I would stagger back and forth, you know, the 12 feet of the room. And, and that's how I started training for Iron Man, Mike.

Mike Ergo (31:04.895)
Holy cow, man. I imagine I can just, I can kind of picture it now. This somewhat pale gray alien looking creature, 110 pounds of the bald head at the time. We both with the will to freaking survive getting after it.

Derek Fitzgerald (31:23.119)
Well, the only difference is that as soon as I get the new heart, I add color again. Now, okay, understandably, within reason, was still, it's all relative.

Lindsay Hiken (31:29.347)
Mm.

Mike Ergo (31:29.565)
Yeah. It's all relative.

Lindsay Hiken (31:34.99)
For those people listening and not watching on YouTube, Derek does not present as having a black ancestry. Not to say he doesn't, but it's not visible. Let's just put it that way.

Derek Fitzgerald (31:43.232)
Hahaha

Mike Ergo (31:45.427)
Yeah, we're not... Yeah, if we're doing a white paper test, you know, it's a darker shade of pink, but...

Derek Fitzgerald (31:53.266)
I'm still here, I promise. But yeah, it's a different shade of gray when you have no blood flowing through your veins.

Mike Ergo (31:57.289)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (32:02.757)
Where, where did you? I mean, what's the progression? you do your first 5K and eight months after a transplant, right? That, that seems like just in the grand scheme of things relatively soon. I mean, is that, is that soon for most people's timetables to do something like that?

Derek Fitzgerald (32:21.777)
You know, your mileage may vary, right? So it all goes down to what people expect from themselves. Majority of people who get a heart transplant gain a hundred pounds within the first year. And that is not good for a system. That's not good for a person with a normal heart, with a factory installed heart. All right. I had an aftermarket upgrade and they say, you know what? Don't get fat.

Mike Ergo (32:24.925)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (32:28.973)
okay.

Lindsay Hiken (32:35.82)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (32:36.073)
Okay.

No.

Lindsay Hiken (32:41.166)
All

Mike Ergo (32:44.03)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (32:49.645)
That's literally what the head of Penn's transplantation program told me. Don't get fat, kid, as I was leaving the hospital.

Mike Ergo (32:56.361)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (32:56.544)
Is that because like you were describing, not being able to being atrophy, not being able to like really get out of bed yourself, or at least not sitting up and getting out like a normal, is that because this is a normal process for having a new heart? And so people, some people just kind of stay in that sort of mentality or is it some other, or is it emotional? What do you think? mean, I know you didn't do that, but.

Derek Fitzgerald (33:23.777)
I say this with all due respect to everybody out there going through their own struggles, but if somebody tells you that you're broken and you believe it,

A lot of people curl up into a ball and say this is it.

Mike Ergo (33:35.827)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's.

Lindsay Hiken (33:37.933)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (33:43.451)
It's the path of least resistance maybe, or it's just overwhelming to think maybe I'm not because it requires such a strong belief in self that defies even medical professionals, right?

Derek Fitzgerald (33:57.999)
Yeah. mean, the fact that I firmly believe that you have to see something in order to want it. You have to know it's possible. You you talk about, you know, the four minute mile, nobody knew that you could do it until it was done. And then all of a sudden everybody started breaking that four minute mile. For me, I had one guy that I'd heard about, named Kyle Garlett, who was a cancer surviving heart transplant recipient who had attempted Kona.

Mike Ergo (34:05.097)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (34:15.295)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (34:28.845)
And he had a book and I read the book and it was like reading an autobiography out of body experience. you know, unfortunately he didn't finish it. but, but he, he gave it a shot, man. And for me that was like, you know what? All right. Game on. Let's see what we can do. So, eight months post heart transplant is my very, very first, I mean, not post heart transplant, but ever.

Mike Ergo (34:33.779)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (34:43.325)
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (34:58.83)
5k run. Two months after that, I did my first half marathon. A couple of months after that, I did my first Olympic distance try. The month after that, I did my first half iron.

Mike Ergo (35:00.574)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (35:08.45)
Wow.

Mike Ergo (35:08.745)
So this is all leading you set out like I'm doing this 5k in route to iron man.

Derek Fitzgerald (35:15.969)
Every time I got to a starting line of something, I would ask my donor if they felt that we were up to it. And every time, I didn't know that I necessarily believed it, but we would give it a shot. So getting to the starting line for me, was the win. The fact that we finished all these things was like icing on the cake. was cool to be outside, nature.

Mike Ergo (35:34.579)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (35:39.615)
Hehehehe

Derek Fitzgerald (35:42.769)
Because for about 10 years, I didn't get a chance to do that. My 30s, essentially. I was diagnosed when I was 30, and then 38, I got the heart transplant.

Mike Ergo (35:43.508)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (35:53.602)
Wow. Wait, you were diagnosed with cancer or with the heart problem at 30? Okay.

Derek Fitzgerald (35:59.793)
Cancer at 30, heart failure at 31.

Lindsay Hiken (36:03.446)
Okay, okay. I didn't know that someone could, honestly, I didn't know that someone could be in heart failure for longer than like a couple days or something. I had no idea that this is something you could do for seven years.

Derek Fitzgerald (36:17.54)
Well, they did put me on a, they implanted a pacemaker and defibrillator inside me. So that was the safety net. I didn't really know how I was still alive anyway with my heart function as low as it was.

Lindsay Hiken (36:23.476)
I see.

Lindsay Hiken (36:28.046)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (36:28.479)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (36:35.32)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (36:35.945)
Just endurance is in your DNA.

Derek Fitzgerald (36:39.301)
Well, I'm on stutter. I'll call it stutter.

Mike Ergo (36:41.235)
Hehehehehe

Lindsay Hiken (36:44.366)
I do have a friend that I feel like, hopefully she'll listen to this podcast. I feel like she would relate to you. She did not have all of the challenges that you have, but she's a cyclist and she is very strong. And all of a sudden she went through this year where she was like falling back and couldn't keep up with us and couldn't, you know, in her swim, she's strong swimmer, couldn't, couldn't do that. And she went to, even though she didn't feel good, she went to a like two week cycling.

to her in Sardinia and rode all over Sardinia. And she got back and like the day after she got back, she had a major issue and she went to Stanford and maybe it's called heart failure, but she had some blockage in her arteries, like a major blockage and it just hadn't gone yet into her heart and killed her. She has a pacemaker. Well, she had a couple incidents after this, but she was sort of stubborn too, just doing the

Derek Fitzgerald (37:14.82)
wow.

Derek Fitzgerald (37:27.473)
Lindsay Hiken (37:40.13)
Well, I'm gonna go to Sardinia. I don't feel good, but I'm gonna go. And she's just very lucky that this problem didn't rear its ugly head in the middle of riding around some island in rural Italy. But it's sort of that mentality that endurance athletes have sometimes, and other people too, but like, I'm pushing through this and I'm just gonna do it. it's almost like.

Mike Ergo (37:44.436)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (37:51.699)
yeah, yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (37:52.424)
yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (38:04.878)
Remember that character, Pippi Longstocking, where she would do stuff until someone told her she couldn't. She'd do stuff that was impossible until sort of like, I'm going to just do this. you know, hey, I don't know any better. So I think that's I think it's amazing what you what you've been able to do. So it sounds like you were at at least a half Iron Man within, you know, close to just about a year after your transplant. mean, that's pretty amazing.

Derek Fitzgerald (38:15.439)
Yeah. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (38:32.527)
Yeah. So I was transplanted January of 2011 and my first half iron was May of 2012.

Mike Ergo (38:41.833)
Wow.

Lindsay Hiken (38:41.902)
Wow, that's very, very fast.

Mike Ergo (38:44.411)
Wow. Did you have doubts along the way of, you know, is my heart gonna be able to withstand this? Was there a fear that it would be overtaxed? I don't know how that works.

Derek Fitzgerald (38:58.849)
I wasn't worried about the heart being overtaxed because I just considered myself in bonus time anyway. know, all bets were off. You know, as I was being discharged from Penn with the transplant, that woman who was the head of the program who told me not to get fat, she said, most people see this gift as a reason to lock yourself in a room.

Mike Ergo (39:06.761)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (39:27.727)
and to live in a bubble and just say, I didn't know your donor, but as part of your medical team and knowing people, I would bet that between us and your donor, that's not why they gave you this heart. This heart is something that is giving you a chance at life and you've got to take that chance. For me, don't go through hell.

Mike Ergo (39:29.694)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (39:44.525)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (39:52.563)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (39:55.887)
only to put yourself in isolation for the rest of life and not live life. So, yeah.

Mike Ergo (39:59.379)
Just play it safe but not really live. Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea. That's a... So glad you got that.

Lindsay Hiken (40:07.608)
So when did you start? So you described a situation where you were laying in beds, only awake an hour a day, and that you had no, there was a blank spot when you're looking at your future, just a blank spot. When was it immediate, as soon as you got a heart and you knew it was gonna match that you started seeing a future? Or when did that kick back in for you?

Derek Fitzgerald (40:07.642)
Yeah, me too.

Mike Ergo (40:30.591)
Mm.

Derek Fitzgerald (40:31.589)
That's a good question. When you don't have that vision for as long as I did not have that vision, allowing yourself to think about a future, it takes a lot. There's a psychological impact there. And I didn't trust initially that I could have a future. But after the heart transplant and I knew I was in bonus time,

Mike Ergo (40:46.857)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (41:01.679)
I just got to the point where said, you know what? Who cares? Who cares? Because now I have all I've been given a chance. I want to take advantage of the chance and I'm going to live my life today and I have the best fricking day that I possibly have. And if I die tonight, I'm cool with that. And then the next day I would wake up and I would do everything I could.

Mike Ergo (41:10.505)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (41:25.192)
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (41:29.809)
to have the best day ever. And after a while, it's just like, I'm having an amazing life. You know, I'm doing fun things. I'm living life. I'm enjoying life. I'm getting the most out of life. And if I go, I'm cool with that.

Mike Ergo (41:48.029)
Yeah, I see it as there's a couple, two groups of people in some ways. And some people, if we're using a baseball analogy, get up to the plate and they're looking for a hit. They're looking to get ahead. And then there's another group of people get up there that hope they don't strike out and that's the play it safe. Don't mess up. Don't take chances, but it's no way to live.

Lindsay Hiken (42:16.408)
You see that in that mindset in a lot of even small ways, like with triathlon or with running, you'll hear someone say, well, I did one and my hips hurt really bad afterwards, so I cannot do this anymore. And maybe they just don't want to do it, which is totally fine. But we all know that in many instances,

Mike Ergo (42:23.295)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (42:46.892)
that's just not true. if you, cause if you really want to do it, you can go get PT and learn what the problem is and fix the, you know, the, your run form or whatever, whatever it is. and, I think that if you're able to get into a mindset that's a little bit more like yours, even without, you know, going through everything. And I don't think it's probably not entirely possible to get in your exact mindset without almost dying.

or dying a couple times. But close to that is the way to live. Because you don't have to constantly cut things out of your life. Like, this little thing happened. So now I'm not going to I can't do it. You know, and I had a woman tell me, I ran a marathon with them.

Mike Ergo (43:28.297)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (43:31.86)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (43:38.642)
like the lymphoma group or whatever it was. she said, team and training them. And she said, broke my feet. And I said, my God, you had a broken foot? And she's like, no, but it like broke my feet. So I'm never running again. And I was like, OK, you just don't want to run again because your foot wasn't actually broken. It was just sore. You know, so I try to I try to remember that I can I can just discount myself.

Mike Ergo (43:41.57)
team and training.

Derek Fitzgerald (43:55.94)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (43:56.349)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (44:06.476)
and just count myself out. That's a mindset issue more than it is a physical thing.

Mike Ergo (44:09.15)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (44:12.837)
Yeah, just by training alongside other people, and it's not intentional, but I tend to be a perspective provider. Like a lot of people go, my foot really hurts, but I guess I shouldn't say that in front of Derek. Right?

Mike Ergo (44:31.871)
Ha!

Lindsay Hiken (44:32.48)
Right, right.

Mike Ergo (44:36.031)
I got a boo boo, but Derek's here and he just got a new heart and he's been dying for 10 years, but he's here doing a, you know, a half iron man with us.

Lindsay Hiken (44:44.662)
Yeah, that's it.

Derek Fitzgerald (44:44.877)
And so, mean, listen, whatever someone's mountain is, psychologically, mentally, emotionally, is someone's mountain. And I don't just want that. If feeling like your feet are broken is the worst thing that you've ever felt in your life, that's the mountain. you know, it's not for me to compare or judge.

Mike Ergo (44:56.681)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (45:05.213)
Yeah, that's the mountain.

Derek Fitzgerald (45:14.213)
But people tend to look at me anyway and start aligning perspective. My thresholds have been recalibrated. That's all. I have no quit.

Mike Ergo (45:25.129)
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (45:30.373)
Doesn't enter my brain.

Mike Ergo (45:31.871)
I love that, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (45:33.59)
I do too. I'm jealous of that. I'm not jealous of what you went through, but I'm jealous of that shift.

Derek Fitzgerald (45:38.641)
Well, the trick is to get to that mindset without going through death twice. Because a lot of people come to me and they say, Derek, just out of curiosity, how long does a heart normally last? A transplanted heart. And I said, you know, 10 years on average. And they're like, how long has it been since you got your heart? And I said, about 14 years. And all of sudden they're doing the math pretty quickly and they're like, how does it feel to know that you could go at any time?

Lindsay Hiken (45:44.246)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (45:44.777)
Yeah, yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (46:08.675)
I go, I don't know. How's it feel for you?

Because unless you've got some sheet of paper locked away in a safe in your office somewhere, I have a feeling that we're in the same spot. I just have been shown what that looks like more often than you. And it's still coming for you. So what are you going to do with today?

Lindsay Hiken (46:14.114)
Yeah.

Mike Ergo (46:32.521)
Yeah. I think, that's one of the reasons we've gotten along so well there. I was putting it together as you're talking about it. And there's a certain similarity to my experience in combat. When I figured, you know what, I'm probably not going to make it back. So I'm going to do the best job I can while I'm here. Such a radical perspective shift and

Lindsay Hiken (46:32.6)
Right, right.

Mike Ergo (47:01.029)
It's somewhat of an acceptance of fate, but not a surrendering to giving up, a surrendering to the moment though.

Lindsay Hiken (47:10.094)
I can

Mike Ergo (47:11.156)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (47:12.043)
I appreciate that, Mike. I've done a lot with my heart. And let me just say this. I do not call anything remotely, close to remotely to what I've done as heroic. Other people have said that to me and I'm extremely uncomfortable with that word, especially when I relate it to guys like Mike, guys who volunteer and sign up.

to go protect the rest of us and put themselves in harm's way. Mike, you chose that. I was just trying to survive moment to moment because of a health issue. I didn't sign up for it. I wouldn't have been brave enough to sign up for it. You knucklehead that you are signed up for it, yourself in harm's way. That's heroic. So anybody out there?

Mike Ergo (48:06.015)
appreciate that. But I also don't accept that title. I appreciate the thought though, but it's I think something we have in common too. It's a we both maybe didn't choose the exact circumstances, but showing up to the moment is a choice. Showing up to the moment is a choice you make because some people will see that and say like, that's it. I'm done. I'm done showing up.

Derek Fitzgerald (48:26.756)
Absolutely.

Lindsay Hiken (48:36.43)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (48:37.747)
I feel like there's so much more I want to get into and I don't want to rush it here. I feel like we might need a part two to this.

Derek Fitzgerald (48:38.0)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (48:47.5)
Yes, I think so, definitely.

Mike Ergo (48:49.105)
Yeah, because we got to get to the cool parts of Iron Man. We got to get the cool parts of Kona. I mean, there's a little foreshadow in here, but if you're up for it, Derek, I'd love to get you back on. OK.

Derek Fitzgerald (48:58.575)
Have care, anytime.

Lindsay Hiken (49:00.482)
Yeah, that'd be great. That would be great. We try to keep our podcast to less than an hour just so people can listen while they're commuting. But I have a lot of questions and I want to hear more of the story. So and I'm sure that the listener does too. I definitely am. I'm inspired today by, know, I'm always inspired by Mike and I'm inspired by you as well today. And I really appreciate.

Derek Fitzgerald (49:08.643)
Absolutely.

Mike Ergo (49:14.355)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (49:29.678)
the way that you were able to tell the story as well as, you know, very clear and you're a great storyteller for sure.

Mike Ergo (49:35.068)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (49:42.117)
Well, thank you. Thank you. And I love listening to you guys. I thank the world of both of you. And I really appreciate you having me on. So anytime you want me back, you just say the word.

Mike Ergo (49:53.009)
Okay, well, we'll make it in a week then. Yeah, we can't leave our listeners on this cliffhanger of Derek gets a new heart and then he starts doing races and can't stop. Yeah, so we'll be in the next couple weeks listeners. So don't worry. Yeah, so Derek, I appreciate you joining us today, man. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story and

Lindsay Hiken (49:53.262)
It's going to be soon. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (49:56.241)
Thank

Lindsay Hiken (50:09.806)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (50:20.049)
You know what I love about it too is not just that you face the moment, but you share that gift with others as an inspiration. Not in a way. And I, cause I know you, you don't bring it, doing it a way to bring glory to yourself, but to, to give others inspiration and to, light the way for other people. So I appreciate that brother.

Lindsay Hiken (50:34.286)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (50:37.115)
Well, thanks. I appreciate that. I'm the lucky recipient, right? It's a responsibility as a survivor to show other people what's possible, you know, and to honor the gifts that I've been given. know, my donor was my hero, is my hero. And listen, I'll wrap this up by just saying that what I know about my donor, Lindsay,

Mike Ergo (50:49.833)
Fully agree.

Mike Ergo (50:54.303)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Ergo (50:58.281)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (51:06.861)
is that on the last day of their life, probably the worst day of their life, they chose to save the life of a complete stranger. And to me, even though I've never met them, I've never met their family, that tells me enough about that person. And to me, that speaks to courage and generosity and compassion for your fellow man. That

Mike Ergo (51:13.662)
Hmm.

Mike Ergo (51:30.665)
Mm-hmm.

Derek Fitzgerald (51:32.465)
has been the challenge that's been thrown on my feet of how I live my life the rest of my life. That's what I have to live up to.

Mike Ergo (51:40.127)
I love it. I love it. Absolutely love it. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (51:41.004)
Yeah.

If you're listening to this, becoming a donor is probably not for everybody for variety of reasons. But I highly recommend it. I'm inspired to go do it myself. I was a donor for a long time, and somehow it fell off my license. don't know if it's still in the system or what. It used to say donor on my license, and it doesn't now. So I'm going to follow up with that and make sure that it's back on there. Because for me,

Mike Ergo (52:05.059)
yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (52:14.174)
It's inspiring to have the last act be not just I'm gone and my family is sad, but that I help somebody else. I think that that's for me. Yeah.

Mike Ergo (52:21.009)
Mm-hmm. It's the way to go. I'm the same. I'm the same. I'm a donor. Or I'm signed up to be a donor, so yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (52:26.523)
Me too.

Lindsay Hiken (52:29.262)
Awesome. of course you too, Derek. Do they say though the the heart's not a candidate?

Derek Fitzgerald (52:33.188)
Absolutely.

Mike Ergo (52:34.291)
Yeah.

Derek Fitzgerald (52:39.305)
yeah, no, no. mean, when I go, I mean, I've had cancer, I've had diabetes now, I had a heart transplant. I don't know what they can take from me and use to help somebody else. I don't know when I'm going to go and what technology is going to be around that could make that possible. So I just go, you know what, whatever you need to take.

Lindsay Hiken (52:53.112)
Right.

Mike Ergo (52:57.759)
You figured it out, yeah. I love it.

Lindsay Hiken (52:57.932)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right, folks. Well, we're going to wrap it up here. We are going to have Derek back on ASAP and we will see you right here next week. If you don't mind, wherever you're listening to this right now, go ahead and like and subscribe and hit the download button, because even if you can't listen to it right then, downloads help us spread the.

know to be honest I don't know how it all works but liking subscribing giving us you know reviews and downloading that does something for us exactly exactly so we appreciate the help and we'll talk to you next week bye

Mike Ergo (53:26.184)
You

Derek Fitzgerald (53:26.993)
you

Mike Ergo (53:29.311)
It does some digital thing, yeah, but that goes up and it looks like a stock and it goes up. We want that.

Mike Ergo (53:39.391)
All right, see y'all.