Pivoting From Triathlon

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, hosts Mike and Lindsay discuss their personal experiences with pivoting in their athletic pursuits, particularly in the wake of the pandemic. They explore the challenges of maintaining training consistency, the importance of mental health in sports, and the motivations behind their current athletic goals. Mike shares his plans to run the Marine Corps Marathon in honor of a fallen comrade, while Lindsay reflects on her shift from triathlons to cycling and golf, emphasizing the need for enjoyment and stress relief in their activities. In this conversation, Lindsay Hiken and Mike discuss the journey of exploring new sports, particularly golf, and the importance of pivoting in athletic pursuits. They delve into the signs that indicate when it's time to pivot, the challenges associated with changing one's identity as an athlete, and the significance of advocating for mental health and medication adjustments. The discussion emphasizes the joy of trying new things and the necessity of self-reflection in making life changes.

Takeaways

• The pandemic has significantly impacted training consistency.
• It's important to prioritize mental health over strict training plans.
• Finding joy in athletic pursuits can lead to better motivation.
• Motivation can come from personal goals or honoring others.
• It's okay to pivot away from a sport if it no longer brings joy.
• Strength training can be a refreshing change for endurance athletes.
• Cycling can provide a fulfilling alternative to running.
• Golfing can be a fun and relaxing way to stay active.
• Setting aside competitive pressures can reduce stress in hobbies.
• Exploring new interests can reignite passion for fitness. Lindsay is excited to take golf lessons and improve her skills.
• Golf and triathlon require different mindsets and training approaches.
• It's important to recognize when the joy of training diminishes as a sign to pivot.
• Pivoting can be challenging due to identity issues tied to athletic pursuits.
• Self-advocacy in mental health is crucial for well-being.
• Changing one's perspective on food and nutrition can lead to healthier habits.
• It's okay to try something new and embrace change in life.
• The process of aging can affect athletic identity and capabilities.
• Finding joy in physical activities should be a priority for non-professional athletes.
• Evaluating personal feelings and experiences is essential for making meaningful changes.

Keywords

podcast, triathlon, marathon, motivation, athletic pursuits, pandemic, training, cycling, golf, golf, triathlon, athletic pursuits, pivoting, mental health, identity, training, sports, lifestyle changes, self-advocacy

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Transcript

Mike (00:01)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co-host Mike. I'm here with my co-host Lindsay. Lindsay, good morning, how are you?

Lindsay Hiken (00:08)
Good morning. I am doing pretty well. got my cup of coffee with me. So that's the most important part of my morning, to be honest. Probably a little pathetic, but that's what it is. Yeah. I just have my, I just have one in the morning and then I'm done for the day. Yeah. How about you? Do you? Well, typical alcoholic, my one.

Mike (00:13)
Mmm.

Yeah. It's an acceptable vice.

Yeah. I have a couple, I have a couple. We'll do two to three. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (00:38)
It's a, my one cup of coffee is like a, it's like a, yeah, it's like a thermos full of coffee. It's just one.

Mike (00:42)
Venti or Trento. Yeah.

I was laughing like the meme where it shows this guy's, my doctor said only to have one glass of wine a day and he's got this giant goblet that he's drinking out of two hands.

Lindsay Hiken (00:55)
Try it.

I can relate. That's kind of the thing I used to tell myself. Like I'm just having I'm just having one and then it would be a water glass like full of Chardonnay. I'm glad those days are over, to be honest.

Mike (01:08)
Yeah, yeah.

my god, I am so relieved they're over for me as well.

Lindsay Hiken (01:16)
I mean, at my age, I cannot imagine having a hangover. things already hurt just from sleeping. You know what I mean? I'm capable of hurting my neck in the middle of the night while I'm asleep, so I can't imagine doing something, you know, like. Someday you will be in your 50s as well and you'll be like, I know what Lindsey's talking about now.

Mike (01:21)
Oof. Yeah, it doesn't sound fun.

Yeah.

impressive skill.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (01:46)
shit's just falling apart for no reason.

Anyway, what are we talking about today?

Mike (01:52)
we're talking about pivoting and generally how we're doing. Cause we both kind of pivoted in life and like, well you pivoted in career and we've, we were talking about pivoting in terms of our athletic pursuits as well.

Lindsay Hiken (01:54)
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, we are. Which, you I mean, I think we've talked about it on here before about kind of struggling with training and being consistent in it. And I was thinking, you know, I became inconsistent during the pandemic and I just kind of haven't gotten it back. I mean, that's kind of how I feel to a certain degree.

Mike (02:33)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (02:36)
And I know we've talked about this, you you've mentioned the same thing, but I was starting to write a blog post about this topic and about like how I feel like the pandemic changed me in ways I wasn't aware of until later, which is true. But then you said something interesting to me, which is, you know, I was kind of.

Mike (02:52)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (02:59)
questioning why can I not get back on my training plan? Why can I not focus? And you said, well, maybe you don't need to do that anymore for your mental health. Maybe it's something else that you, and maybe it's just not the thing that I want or need to do. And it hadn't occurred to me before.

Mike (03:10)
Yeah.

yeah.

I mean, both of us are kind of singularly focused, driven in specific ways and hyper-focused in them even. So the idea that working out would not be synonymous or equal to triathlon training and racing was a concept that took me a few years to learn.

Lindsay Hiken (03:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just learning it. And my default position is always to just kind of berate myself for not doing something. You know, that's my default position.

Mike (03:53)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (03:56)
And I'm working on that for sure. But that's kind of where I've been for the last couple of years of like, you need to get it back on a training plan. Why aren't you doing all the stuff your coach puts in your training peaks? You're whatever you you you all these problems and.

And I heard someone say, because I'll say I should, I should, I should do this. I should do that. And they said you need to stop shooting all over yourself.

Mike (04:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard that too.

Well, there's something to be said, right? For the days you don't want to get up and train because you're tired. Right? So those are, those are single days. And then if that starts to become a pattern over the longterm, maybe that's an indication that, okay, maybe a shift or a pivot is an order. So mean, everybody's going to have a day where they don't want to get up and train. Everybody's going to have those days.

Lindsay Hiken (04:51)
Yes, definitely, definitely. But I was, I used to have those days and be sort of like, yeah, I'm just, can tell I'm tired. I can tell my body's tired, but I still had that fire in the belly to race. So I still had that like, okay, well race is coming up or, or even just a goal, like a team goal that we were doing. I still had that fire in me. So I would,

Mike (05:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (05:18)
continue the next like as soon as I rested and felt better, I would continue doing what I was doing. So, so tell me a little bit about you and your pivoting from if you're pivoting away from triathlon or what or what you're doing.

Mike (05:22)
Mm-hmm.

I will. I'm gonna let it dog in really quick because he won't stop whining and then we're gonna get into it.

Lindsay Hiken (05:36)
Yeah,

we will get into it. So I think I think listeners, I know that a lot of you are triathletes and we are by no means saying anything bad about triathlon. I think it's amazing. And I think for people who are still really doing it, you know, it's the best outlet. And I can see in my teammates just the passion that they have for the sport of triathlon. And I think that it's amazing. So.

Not saying anything bad about triathlon, but.

Mike (06:08)
No, not at all. I just think that, you know, if you eat grilled cheese sandwiches every day, you're to get tired of grilled cheese sandwiches. You know, and they could be the best thing ever. But I, um, for me personally, I thought about it and no, I, I, I love the sport and I realized I need to do something a little different to maybe either rekindle the love or find something else that I'm passionate about too. Cause it doesn't have to be this all or nothing. And I, what I don't want to do,

Lindsay Hiken (06:24)
Hmm.

Mike (06:36)
is race and not be in love with the sport while I'm doing it. Even though it's hard, right? Not saying it needs to be easy, but I just found my interest starting to wane. I was... first it really bothered me because it was working out and being in shape.

Lindsay Hiken (06:41)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Mike (07:02)
and having athletic pursuits all tied up in triathlon. had to be triathlon.

Lindsay Hiken (07:07)
Right, right.

Mike (07:09)
So what I, what I came to was, okay, well, if I've tried this for a few years, given you, you had the pandemic, right? That really killed momentum for, for all of us. I I re-evaluated what am I actually feeling versus what do I actually think I should feel? So, yeah. And I wanted to, to look at, okay.

Lindsay Hiken (07:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mike (07:37)
What else can I do that that gives me that spark and I still love running. I still love swimming. Cycling has been a like, but not a love. And so, yeah, I want to decide on like, well, why we try a marathon? Why don't we try that? And in that, I don't want to be, have the marathon body. want to be the strong guy who can still run as opposed to the marathon body trying to lift weights.

Lindsay Hiken (07:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right. Yes, that marathon body is very light as a feather.

Mike (08:14)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,

and I've been that that slender before and that's so that's okay, but I just have different goals right now

Lindsay Hiken (08:21)
Mm hmm. Yeah. So it sounds like you're doing a lot of strength training.

Mike (08:26)
Yeah. And the gym every single day and felt good. I really found that spark while I was on vacation. So I was out in the islands. I worked out every single morning and enjoyed it. I loved it. I looked forward to it and that was, that was new. And so I said, okay, there's something to this. I've got the spark, got the momentum. Let's, let's, let's go with this right now.

Lindsay Hiken (08:50)
That's awesome. I'm excited for you. Super excited for you. And it's commendable to be excited to get into the gym and lift weights every day because so many endurance athletes I know, including myself, are like, ugh, strength training, ugh.

Mike (08:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Exactly right and

you look at so many gym rats that are like, you know a quarter mile on a treadmill. It sounds horrible, right? The idea of running for an hour is unimaginable.

Lindsay Hiken (09:13)
Absolutely.

Right. That's so funny. When I first did. Started training for a triathlon, it was like a cruddy day outside and I went to my gym and I was on the treadmill and I was going to only run like three miles. I mean, I was training for a sprint, so, know. And this guy that I know came over and was chatting with me and I just kept running when I was talking to him. And after a while, he was like.

Mike (09:35)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (09:45)
Are you going to stop running? Like, what are you doing? I said, Michael, I'm running three miles. He was like, oh, what? Like it was a totally new concept to him. Yeah, exactly. He was like, Jesus Christ, you're out of your mind. Like, OK, well, people I know are doing a lot longer than three. So OK, so you have this excitement and newfound burning in the belly to do a marathon. So if you.

Mike (09:55)
In a row?

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (10:15)
outside of Iron Man Dunham Marathon?

Mike (10:18)
I have not, I've never done a standalone marathon. The longest I've ran in just a standalone race would be a half. I think the hardest being a trail half. That was, that was a butt kicker. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (10:29)
Yeah. Those are my favorite. I love that. I do love those.

I have to admit. OK, so have you chosen a race?

Mike (10:39)
Yes. And I am going to do, if I get accepted, I'm going to do the Marine Corps marathon in October in Washington, DC. two guys I served with in my platoon will be running it too. So yeah, shout out to Evan. Shout out to Mike. we're going to run together and we're going to carry a flag for our dear friend, Brad Faircloth who didn't make it home, who was part of our platoon.

Lindsay Hiken (10:46)
Hmm. how cool.

How cool.

Mike (11:08)
and make it really memorable and special that way.

Lindsay Hiken (11:11)
That's really cool. mean, and to have something like that be the motivator is also very helpful, right? There's the part like it feels good to run. And then there's a part of like, I'm going with my buddies and we're going to celebrate this fallen buddy.

Mike (11:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

That, and there's, I mean, there's different kinds of motivation and we could spend a whole podcast on it. There's, know, external motivation. Like I want to, you know, look good to impress somebody that's, that's, you know, to get in shape, intrinsic motivation for working out as I want to get in shape. So I feel and look better for myself. And then there's pro social motivation, which is

Lindsay Hiken (11:34)
That's true.

Mike (11:55)
I want to get in the best shape I can to run this race because I know it'll make Brad's mom happy. I don't, know it'll affect people on the course in a positive way that might inspire them. And it'll inspire people who might, might've lost someone to know that their loved one isn't forgotten. So whatever the pro social causes, you know, you're affecting other people. And for me having that, that, kind of cause really helps motivate me to do, to do things. I love it. I love the feeling of it. I love.

Lindsay Hiken (12:01)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:25)
doing the work.

Lindsay Hiken (12:27)
How cool. I'm so, so excited for you. Now, what do mean if you get accepted? What does that mean?

Mike (12:29)
Yeah.

So I'm applying through a team Semper Fi that funds veterans, specifically Marines, to do athletic events. you know, they, if I get accepted, they pay my way through it. So that would be phenomenal.

Lindsay Hiken (12:39)
Hmm.

yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Do you know anything about the course yet?

Mike (12:50)
Yeah.

I know it goes

through all the monuments and the mall and around the big sites in Washington. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:01)
Huh, that's cool. Because I used to live there. I'm just interested

in seeing I'm have to look it up and see all the places that you guys run. It's a beautiful. In a lot of ways, it's a beautiful city. I don't know. Have you been? of course you've been you were out there like last year.

Mike (13:13)
Mm hmm. Yeah. I've been out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I've been a few times to Washington's really beautiful. Really, really pretty.

Lindsay Hiken (13:26)
I like all the squares and the roundabouts with that have like, you know, some statues and things and then I think that that's cool. And then all the various museums and the mall, of course, is cool. So that would be a neat place to run because you get to look at something besides just the ground, you know.

Mike (13:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah. So it'll be interesting that the, the idea of doing a marathon because I thought about it and you know, you do it through triathlon, the, all the athletes are spread out by that point when you get to the run, but then you're doing a marathon or any kind of running race, you're have that mass start. And so it takes a few miles for things to kind of spread out.

Lindsay Hiken (13:59)
yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And depending on how fast you're going, you're still going to have a lot more people around you than you do. You know, you're not if you're in the middle, you're not the fastest, you're not the slowest. At least that's what I found is that there's a lot of people around me for the whole thing, which is great because people are, you know, rooting each other on. I'm sure you guys are going to find carrying the flag, it's going to be even more of that, which is awesome. If it.

Mike (14:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (14:36)
One thing I noticed when I did when I did well, I've seen this on a lot of halves even is that if there's an out and back part of it and there's people who are like pros running or lead, you'll see or lead athletes, you'll see the leaders like coming back.

Mike (14:47)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (14:55)
Solo, mean solo, they're running, there's no one around them, right? Because they're so far ahead of everybody else. But you can hear them coming because everybody's cheering them on as they come back. So everyone who's still running out, who's like, this person's 45 minutes ahead of me on a half marathon, you know, is cheering for them, which is a really cool feeling. It's so good to see these people just hauling at them. And they're like gazelles, they're so beautiful when they run, which that's a cool part too.

Mike (15:00)
Yeah.

Yes.

my god.

Yeah,

you made me think of a memory when I did Kona in 2017, seeing the pros just zoom by on the bike, you know, just watching them just absolutely rip the chorus apart. And then I think as I was starting my run or heading out of town, Daniela reef was just finishing and winning and I still had a marathon to go.

Lindsay Hiken (15:32)
Yeah.

hahahaha

Yeah, I experienced not even pros doing that, just regular people finishing as I was heading up. Or people, like I saw yourself out on Santa Rosa course and I think you were on your last loop and I was like, Jesus Christ, guy, whoever this guy is and he's carrying this flag and he's just way up there and I still have all this running to do.

Mike (15:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ha ha.

That's

the mental game of it, right? When you start trying to do the math of how much longer I have, and these people are finished, like, can I stay in the mindset to keep going?

Lindsay Hiken (16:17)
Mm hmm.

Yeah, of course, like Santa Rosa, where you're doing these loops of run and you come so close to where the finishing shoot is, you know, that was brutal because as you're coming and you got to turn back around and go back out again, you can hear the announcer calling people out as they come down the finishing shoot. It's like, well, I'm heading back out another loop.

Mike (16:26)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Congratulations, Daniel Smith. You are an Iron Man. Not yet you, Lindsay. You've still got another hour on the course. Keep going. Dig deep.

Lindsay Hiken (16:50)
and it's

getting dark so you're gonna get cold and it's gonna be weird. Well that's good, I'm really glad that you found something like that and I'm working on something myself. So I did sign up for a couple of triathlons this year and then I just was like, I don't care. Which is.

Mike (16:53)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (17:16)
an interesting place to be. I've missed races that I've paid for before, but there was a reason like I'm injured or something came up, you know, personal, something came up and I couldn't go. I've never signed up for races and been like, yeah, I don't care. I don't. And I thought, why go if I don't care? mean, there's one coming up. Wildflowers coming up May like second or third and.

Mike (17:31)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Lindsay Hiken (17:43)
I had injured my back a few weeks ago. I think we may have talked about I'm not sure. I might have talked about it when I was talking with Amy just that I had these injuries. And so I haven't been training because my back. But now I could train. could get. know, back on the saddle and I could have lost a week and it's just a sprint so I could definitely be ready to do it. But. It turns out I just don't care. And.

Mike (17:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (18:12)
It was causing me a lot of stress to think about going to this race and pushing through when I didn't have any reason to do it. That's just not, it's not going to work, you know, and.

Mike (18:24)
No, no,

and you don't need to. Right. It's a hobby. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (18:28)
No, it's a hobby.

Yeah, I don't need to. I don't know why I forget sometimes. And I think other people forget, too. It's a hobby. You see people that some people are so serious and it's great that they take it seriously. But but they get upset at things. And I'm like, this is for fun, right? This is supposed to be a form of stress relief. And I was starting to be stressed out about it. And I was thinking like, what is

Mike (18:48)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (18:58)
What is that about? So I decided, fuck it, I'm not going. And I'm good with that decision. I don't care. And so I was thinking, what kind of like you? Well, what do I want to do if I don't want to do that? And I'm kind of the opposite. Well, I love. So first of all, my first love is trail running. Hands down, my favorite thing to do.

Mike (19:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (19:24)
cannot do it, my body is not cooperating when I try to run. Like I ran a little bit, hardly anything. And then the next day got on my bike and then my back went out and it's not from riding. I'm sure it's from all the from running. I've just had just a lot of issues running, trying to get back on the run after breaking my ankle. And hopefully at some time I can. But I'm also like. OK, well.

Mike (19:34)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (19:53)
maybe it's not going to happen. So like, let's set aside this dream of trail running for right now, because if I keep trying to push that and being like, I'm going to run trails, there's all these races that I love and I keep looking at them it's like, oh, I'll end up in the same boat, which is like stress because I can't do the training. And then when I feel too discouraged, then I'm like, I don't want to do it.

but I'm upset about not wanting to do it, which is a different feeling than not wanting to do triathlon right now.

Mike (20:26)
It's yes, that's a feeling and a thought and a judgment based on a feeling and a thought and it's this weird house of cards and you start to

Lindsay Hiken (20:34)
Yes, exactly.

So setting aside trail running, it's like, what is it that I want to do? And there's two things I want to do. One is run my bike. So I'm filling in a gap where you're not a bike. You're not the bike. I'm all about the bike, especially my gravel bike, obsessed with my gravel bike. And I just absolutely love it because it's sort of like trail running, but on a bike. So I'm still out there in the dirt. Yeah. So,

Mike (20:46)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. That's so cool.

Lindsay Hiken (21:05)
I love, love, love that. And then road riding too, just enjoy, I just enjoy cycling and it helps that that's the number one thing my partner does too, you know, because we want to do things together. And I mean, I'm never going to keep up with him ever, but at my peak fitness or when I'm fit, I can at least ride with him and he can wait for me on climbs and not have to wait an hour, you know.

Mike (21:15)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:32)
or he'll come back down and ride up with me a little bit and then come back down, which is also annoying because I'm like, so you're going to climb this three times and I'm going to climb it once, but cool. But we, you know, we can go and we've done this where we go on cycling trips, we go on, we do events, you know, like maybe he'll do the hundred mile and I'll do the hundred K just all of these things we haven't been doing.

Mike (21:41)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (21:55)
because I haven't been focusing on my cycling. So excited about that. And I do have a gravel camp coming up in July. Five blissful days in Montana of riding gravel. And I'm training for that because it's not a tour like where.

Mike (22:04)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (22:15)
like a backroads tour, for example, where it's beautiful and there's a whole bunch of people that are riding like 10 miles on an e-bike and they're like, great, I'm good. I'm going to go back. I'm going to get in the van or whatever. All that last year I went and all the people were super fit. So this is, mean, really crazy, insane fit. I was definitely in the back of the group. So training for that and that I have a fire in my belly for that. And then the other thing is golfing, which is such a I mean, talk about

Mike (22:24)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nice.

Lindsay Hiken (22:44)
pivoting from triathlon. It's kind of the opposite thing. It's totally different. So I took my first golf lesson when I was like 21 ish and maybe not even maybe 20. I was still in college and I would spend the summers at this area of Wisconsin that's like a vacation area. And

Mike (22:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (23:10)
my aunt ran a yacht club, so I would work in the restaurant there. it's not the Dells, it's way up north, like Door County, so north of Green Bay. There's a little part that sticks out into Lake Michigan, it's way up there. But it's kind of like the Dells, like, you know, everyone has a lake house and people are just kind of...

Mike (23:14)
the Wisconsin Dells.

Okay.

Lindsay Hiken (23:39)
out boating, out doing that kind of sportsman stuff. so my two of my aunts and myself were like, okay, we're taking golf lessons. And at the time I was in college and I played lacrosse. So I'm like, I got this because I got like, you know, I stick coordination or whatever they call it, right? I've got and yeah, my least athletic aunt.

Mike (23:59)
huh. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (24:10)
just they showed her how to hit the ball and she just had this like pure swing and she's like, ooh, this is fun. The ball just. Well, as I'm hacking at it and the ball still sitting there. Exactly. It was it was pretty mind boggling. mean, but it was fun. I liked being out there, but I didn't. It's nothing that I kept doing, you know, and over the years I have clubs now. I got clubs.

Mike (24:15)
How annoyed were you?

I'm an athlete, damn it.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (24:38)
a few years ago and took more lessons, but I haven't had time to just go to the driving range and hit regularly or take lessons like consistently so that I can get out on the on the course. And one of the reasons I haven't had time is because I couldn't train for a triathlon and work a job and go golf. So Josh, his job, he's able to

Mike (25:01)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (25:07)
ride his bike all the time and golf all the time. So yeah, I'm jealous. But so this is another thing I get to do with him as I get better. And so I'm excited about that. I'm going to I'm getting ready to take some lessons and probably be super frustrated at the beginning. Yeah.

Mike (25:11)
Nice.

Sounds a lot of fun though.

I played a little and haven't played recently for the last 10 years, but a lot of fun, a lot of a lot of good time for introspection.

Lindsay Hiken (25:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep. And just totally different skill set and and.

you know, different skill set, different mindset in terms of, mean, both require both triathlon and golfing require like very consistent training, but they're so so different in terms of sports. So I'm just excited about something completely new and fresh. That's kind of where I'm getting my motivation. There is just something I've always loved watching golf like golf channels on in our house 24 seven. I always have loved watching golf. So.

Mike (25:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (26:18)
Not that I'm going to look anything like the pros when I'm out there because they make it look easy, but I'm excited to do it myself. So that's kind of my big pivot.

Mike (26:27)
That's exciting. I'd say if we're related into

triathlon golf would be most like the swim in that it is so technique focused and you can have people who might not look like they're the best, but they have mastered the technique and they're not trying to muscle through. So that, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, that was my aunt. She was

out on the course doing like 18 holes like two weeks after we started lessons and my other aunt and I were sitting at the with the coach like just trying to get the ball off the tee. Yeah, so the thing about it, though, too, is also like like triathlon, you do need to.

Mike (26:57)
That's hilarious.

Hehehehe

Lindsay Hiken (27:15)
do other training to be good at the sport. So you do need to do strength training and especially with mobility with all the twisting of the spine, you know, and so I have thought about, okay, well, how am I going to prepare for golf? Because definitely I have back issues. And so I want to kind of take care of that so that that doesn't stop me from golfing. So I started doing a strength class.

Mike (27:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (27:45)
twice a week. Yes, I did. It's like a circuit. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about it. And I know a bunch of people that go to the class or they go to the same place. It's a gym and half moon bay and all they do are two types of classes. One is a strength circuit with some cardio and one's just a pure strength circuit. So I'm doing one of each of those. And yeah, I did box jump for the first time in my life the other day.

Mike (27:46)
Really? Nice.

Mm-hmm.

Nice.

Yeah,

yeah those are challenging. Those are fun. Scary sometimes.

Lindsay Hiken (28:14)
More like a box step

up is what it kind of looked like. was like, So just things like that. And then I have a really good yoga class I'm going to once a week, which is definitely helping my back feel better. So between the two things, I feel like I'm setting myself up for success just in terms of my body for golf. Yeah.

Mike (28:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

That sounds, I'm really excited for you too. That's gonna be a lot of fun. And it's the fun and challenge of learning a new skill, being a beginner and getting to experience the stuff and just take it all in and not have it be autopilot.

Lindsay Hiken (28:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, that beginner mindset is really helpful and exciting, I think.

Mike (29:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, it can be intimidating and exciting. And if you choose to lean into the excitement, it goes a lot better.

Lindsay Hiken (29:13)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm doing. And I'm very excited about it. And I will keep you guys posted on my little golf journey. Once I'm finally able to hit the ball off the tee, I'll be I will celebrate here on the podcast.

Mike (29:23)
Yes. Yeah.

Perfect. Well, I was going to ask

you, Lindsay, when do you think in general, is it time for people to pivot, let's say in athletic pursuits or, or in the endurance world that we live in, you know, because like I was alluding to earlier, you know, there, there are going to be days where you are any given thing that you do that you have a passion for, you're not going to want to do cause you're tired or your body needs rest or you're just

Lindsay Hiken (29:45)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (29:59)
There's something going on that you just feel like you need a day, but that's not necessarily a reason to pivot away from your given pursuit.

Lindsay Hiken (30:07)
Mm

hmm. Yes, I think a couple of signs at least for me were the the joy of training was not there. I mean, on individual days, I go swim with my swim team like I did that 50k swim in February. That was super fun to do and I and I loved doing that. But the general like

Mike (30:26)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (30:34)
I get to go do this mindset versus like I have to go do this. When that change, that's when the pivoting, could you could at least start thinking about it. It's like, why do I feel like I have to go do something that is not a requirement? mean, work, you have to, if you're someone who has to work, you have to work. So you can't just, you can still pivot on your job, but you

Mike (30:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yes.

Lindsay Hiken (31:03)
You can't just go, I'm gonna drop it. But I think with athletic pursuits, for those of us who are not pros, and this is not our source of income, it's purely, it should just be joy. Not on any given day. I mean, you might, like you said, be tired. But the feeling of excitement should be there, I think. And over the long term, if you find that that's not happening, if it's months or even, in my case, years,

Mike (31:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (31:33)
then. But here's why I think pivoting can be very hard, especially for someone like an endurance athlete who's been identified as like, am a triathlete, I am a distance runner, I am whatever. The pivoting has a way has a lot to do with how you identify as a human being. Your identity. That's been a challenge for me. And

Mike (31:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Same. Same.

Lindsay Hiken (32:03)
So when someone's thinking like, is this a time for me to look into doing something else? You know, there can be a struggle there and the struggle doesn't mean that you shouldn't change. The struggle might be that your identity is wrapped up in the thing that you're doing.

Mike (32:21)
That so true. I like that insight, Lindsay, because, you know, for a while to everybody who knew me, I was the Iron Man guy. That's who I was. And I really formed my identity around that and embraced it and went with it. So to not be the Iron Man guy, I had to ask myself, you know, who am I? What am I about? What do I want to achieve? What do I actually feel like doing?

Lindsay Hiken (32:29)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (32:51)
versus how people perceive me.

Lindsay Hiken (32:53)
Yes, so hard to do in some regards. Because even now, know, like, so here's an example of this empowered fitness where I'm going to do the strength training. A friend of mine that goes there introduced me to the owner of the gym and said, you know, my friend wants to check out a class and before she signs up or whatever.

Mike (32:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (33:17)
And then just wrote like, she's this amazing triathlete, she's done Iron Man, she's like all this stuff, right? That's what she said to the and I was kind of like, no, no, I'm not anymore. I'm not. But it's like not only it's about how people perceive me, that's what people think of me. And it's not that I did do those things. But part of me, like

Mike (33:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Lindsay Hiken (33:44)
that was part of me starting to realize like, what's what the struggle is, is that I have my identity wrapped up in that, to the extent that other people have accepted that this is who I am. And so it's hard to change who you are, or not change, but it's hard to kind of realize who you are, if it's different than what you thought.

Mike (33:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

exactly. Exactly. Because I think we can live in the intellect quite heavily and say like, well, no, this makes sense that I would be this way because, and in when that's in conflicts from, you know, what brings us joy or what we're feeling, you know, what are, what are desires or passions are, then it creates this, this dissonance where

We think it should be, but it's not.

Lindsay Hiken (34:39)
And yeah, just getting to learn something about myself through this process of like, I am I, I did triathlon. That doesn't mean I, that's who I am to my core. I'm just a triathlete. Like I'm just someone who's an athlete. I just like to do physical things. That is closer to my identity than saying I am a triathlete.

Mike (35:01)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right. You know, it's, it occurred to me as you were saying that Lindsay is that if we just decide who we are, I'm not saying our principles and what we stand for, but I'm deciding like, you know, our identity in that way, we miss out on so many things that we could enjoy because we've already decided we wouldn't.

Lindsay Hiken (35:26)
Mm-hmm.

Right. I don't have time to do these other things that I'm interested in. Because I'm doing this one thing that that's who I am.

Mike (35:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, like there's

no way I could like golf. I'm a triathlete. That's my only thing, right?

Lindsay Hiken (35:40)
Right.

You know, I'd say, well, I'm going to golf when I'm retired or something like that, which is fine. And now I'm saying I may do another triathlon when I'm retired. You never know. You know, I've I have friends who do triathlon who didn't start really until they. Retired their first year retirement, they're like, I need something to do and I'm going to you know, they were a swimmer or whatever, and now they're they're doing triathlon and it's bringing them a lot of joy. So I don't ever want to think like.

Mike (35:47)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (36:10)
I will never ever do another triathlon, but I'm letting go of the identity as like I am triathlete. And another part of it is just the process of aging. I was finding it very frustrating to identify myself as a triathlete and also not be able to do triathlon because I have injuries, you know.

Mike (36:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can imagine.

Lindsay Hiken (36:41)
So if you're someone who's thinking about changing something, it's OK. It's OK to do. Yeah. It's OK to try something new. It's probably good for you, actually, try something new. So what about other areas of your life?

Mike (36:50)
It's okay, yeah, it's totally okay.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (37:07)
Have you found like in the past that you've needed to kind of pivot your thinking about in other areas of your life? I mean, it be anything. It could be how you're addressing your how you're coming to your marriage, how you're coming to work, things like that.

Mike (37:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes, I have and I think one of the things I guess more related to fitness would be nutrition and my idea of well, I'm suffering by eating healthy and I'm rewarding myself and having fun by eating garbage.

Lindsay Hiken (37:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Wow.

Mike (37:48)
right? Like

I work out so I can eat red vines or donuts or whatever it is. And, and so I've, I've, I've really worked on pivoting from that and examining why I thought that and why I felt that. And noticing that, a lot of that was, you know, just a, and an addiction behavior.

Lindsay Hiken (37:52)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mike (38:13)
and

realizing that I actually enjoy eating healthy food, especially when I'm exercising. You know, if I'm actually spending the time to taste it and slow down.

Lindsay Hiken (38:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:25)
You know, it's, it there's what, what I feel good in the longterm and like even an hour after I eat speaking that short of a longterm, guess, but do I feel better and do I enjoy the taste of healthy food? I do. I do. But I have to slow down and notice it versus if I'm rushing through to eat something unhealthy, like let's say a donut.

Lindsay Hiken (38:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:52)
And I have this identity and like, well, I better eat as much as I can now because I might not do this again. And this, this weird mindset, right.

Lindsay Hiken (39:02)
Yeah, the mindset of our own food can be, you know, real, real struggle. I definitely have addictive behavior around it. Sugar intake for sure. For sure.

Mike (39:12)
Mm-hmm.

yeah. Yeah.

I mean, what's, what's helped me too is address a couple of things. I changed the medication and made a huge difference for me. So I'm no longer seeking out that dopamine rush of eating lots of sugar, which is so relieving. It's so relieving.

Lindsay Hiken (39:22)
Mmm.

I might need to change my meds to get that because they're

definitely not helping me not eat sugar. And that's a good a good other point, just changing direction on what you're doing is a lot about just changing your your mindset. So we've talked a lot just today about like changing what we're going to do athletically and changing what we're doing, you know, with our physical body. But the

Mike (39:55)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (39:56)
the pivot could just be in your mind, know, how you look at food, for example, can change over time and letting go of sort of some of the weird food. I don't know. I have so many like Instagram influencer food things floating around my head, you know, that it's hard sometimes because I'm like, well, I should do this. I should be like that. I should do this one.

Mike (40:19)
huh.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (40:25)
And

to just like let that go and go, maybe it's just healthy eating. Maybe I just need to support what I'm doing. Yeah.

Mike (40:32)
Right,

right. It's not always the fad or trend, but it's, it's sometimes it's back to basics for some of the stuff. And what I like about the idea of, of moving in a different direction or pivoting, whatever we want to call it is to do that. What helps me is to step back and evaluate, you know, when you're in it, it's hard to see, you know, I always think of a,

just an analogy is like the commander in the battlefield battlefield, you know, is, is stepped back from the front line so he can see the front line, you know, so he or she can see the front line and what's going on. And by stepping back, you can evaluate what am I doing instead of just doing, what do I actually believe and what do I actually feel? What I should think versus what I think I should think or believe.

Lindsay Hiken (41:30)
Mm

hmm. Yeah, yeah, you're right. When you're in it, it's hard sometimes. And so I think that's why it's taken me all this time to realize that I need to change what I'm doing is because I'm just in it. Trying to figure out how to muscle through it. Yeah, so eating is a great one. I changed a little bit kind of I changed my job, which is which people do all the time. And I don't think they always think of it as a pivot, but

Mike (41:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (41:58)
for me this was because I'd been focusing so hard on becoming a partner at this firm that I was just like had that singular mindset of like, I'm gonna become a partner, this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life at this firm and just very like narrow focus on that. it became the same vibe that triathlons become like it was just a source of stress and

Mike (41:58)
Definitely is.

Hmm

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (42:26)
it's not something that I had to do to survive. It's just like I had just focused in on it and I was just trying to muscle through as opposed to like, I'm here, I'm showing up, I'm being a worker among workers, this is a sort of a natural progression. That's not what was happening. so changing firms and changing positions where...

Mike (42:29)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

you

Lindsay Hiken (42:50)
The partner track is not really at this firm is not really like how it is at my old firm. There's kind of like no partner track. And so just showing up and doing my work is really all that's required. Now it's not all the extra stuff. That's been a big change for me. And sometimes doing a healthy pivot like that is can be exciting and it can and it's very good for you, but it can be very difficult.

Mike (43:19)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (43:20)
I've had a hard time letting go of like habits that I created in my old position. You know, I'm used to having my hair on fire. And so now it's not. And I'm like, well, what am I doing with myself all day if I'm not, you know, about to explode from anxiety? Right. Like these people haven't given me enough to do because they're not yelling at me constantly. So.

Mike (43:27)
Uh-huh.

Right.

Yeah, exactly. Am I even working? Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (43:49)
So that move was good and you you brought up meds, which is another health topic. We could talk about psych meds all day long, a whole show about that and maybe we will. But it's sort of the same. I feel like I need to advocate for myself with.

Mike (44:00)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (44:16)
my meds and by advocate I mean I need to share exactly with my my team that's taking care of me what's going on for me because I can tend to want to muscle through a depression or a cycle of my my bipolar presences depression and like anxiety I don't get mania where I feel good about everything I just get like

Mike (44:42)
Yeah, all

the downsides, none of fun stuff.

Lindsay Hiken (44:47)
None of the fun stuff, but also not as in danger of not taking my meds, you know. So do you get the fun part on that? No.

Mike (44:58)
No, I've had hypomanic where it's like a light version of it. But I'm so grateful because the mania for people just creates so much destruction.

Lindsay Hiken (45:11)
is,

mm-hmm, mm-hmm. We have a good friend who is a friend of the show who's, she's been in mania for, coming up on two years. it's destroyed the life that she had, you know? It is, but.

Mike (45:15)
Mm-hmm.

hard to watch and yeah it's hard to see.

Lindsay Hiken (45:32)
Advocating for your mental health is a big thing. It's an important thing. And sometimes the way that you're treated is by completely changing what you've been doing based on what your doctor's saying. Don't take our word for it. Don't be like, I'm going to pivot away from my meds. Go off. But based on what your doctor is telling you to do. And, you know, I've done that over the last few years, too. I've had to change how I've been doing it and what I've been doing. It's been good.

Mike (45:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

That's the thing.

And I think, you know, to sum this up for listeners is a good way to evaluate or to look at this. Do I need to make a change is to just check in with yourself and ask yourself, how am I actually doing? Not necessarily what I'm telling other people of how great I'm doing, even if I'm not, or how I think I should be doing or what I think I should be doing, but what and how am I actually doing? And if it's not

Lindsay Hiken (46:27)
Yeah.

Mike (46:29)
where you want it to be, then maybe it's time to make a change.

Lindsay Hiken (46:33)
Yeah, that's pretty straightforward. mean, it's a simple concept. Can be hard to execute or challenging to execute. But I'm here to say, and I think Mike is too, that it can definitely be worth it. And you can be excited for life again and have a zest for life if you are able to change, which is really the key thing for me.

Mike (46:40)
Yes, right? Simple but not easy.

100%.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yep,

exactly. I agree with you. I think we done done it.

Lindsay Hiken (47:01)
I

think so. mean, 47 minutes or so on pivoting, think is enough. Any last words, Mike?

Mike (47:08)
Yeah, exactly.

Glad to be here. Glad to have that zest for life, as you say. And it feels good. It feels good to have that. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (47:21)
It does feel good.

All right. Well, listeners, thank you for listening. And if you wouldn't mind going to your podcast app and do two things, hit auto download so that it downloads every week. Even if you don't listen to that episode, just downloading it really, really helps the show and then rate and review it and.

You know, say what you got to say, whatever it is and say what you mean. But hopefully we'll get like a lot of stars. Five stars is ideal, you know, but we don't want you to be dishonest. We just are asking for honest feedback on that. And then the last thing I'll say is we always want to improve our show. So, you know, feel free to reach out if you go on to our website, you can reach out directly to us and.

Mike (47:51)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (48:18)
It'll you know, you can email us through there. I think you can text us through there and let us know if there's a particular topic you want to hear if there's something that we do that you absolutely hate, which, you know, we want to hear that too, because we want to improve the show. So reach out, let us know what you think. And if you have someone you feel like we should interview, definitely, definitely reach out and let us know because we're happy to. We'd love to interview people and we want to interview.

Mike (48:29)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Please.

Lindsay Hiken (48:45)
all different kinds of people. And so let us know. All righty. And we will see you next week. Bye.

Mike (48:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

All right, see ya.