Finding Calm in the Storm

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast, Mike and Lindsay explore the theme of finding calm amidst chaos. They discuss personal experiences with stress, the physical and emotional responses to anxiety, and the importance of movement and mindfulness. The conversation emphasizes the significance of community, connection, and perspective in managing life's challenges. Listeners are encouraged to embrace both physical activity and mindfulness practices as tools for emotional well-being.

Takeaways

• Finding peace when there's chaos around you is essential.
• Our bodies give us signs when we are stressed.
• Walking is an underrated form of exercise.
• Breathing techniques can help reset our nervous system.
• We are not our thoughts; they are just noise.
• Community and connection are vital for emotional health.
• Perspective can help us manage our fears and anxieties.
• Animals can provide comfort and calmness.
• It's important to control our reactions to external stressors.
• Finding calm in the storm is a continuous journey.

Titles

• Finding Calm in Chaos: A Journey to Inner Peace
• The Power of Movement: How Exercise Can Help You Find Calm

Sound Bites

• "You are not your thoughts."
• "It's important to connect with others."
• "Finding calm in the storm is a journey."

Keywords

calm, chaos, mindfulness, stress management, exercise, community, breathing techniques, personal growth, emotional health, perspective

Thanks for listening to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. Check out our website at gingerandchocolate.com to get in touch with us. Follow us on YouTube, Facebook and Instagram @ginger_and_chocolate_podcast; and please subscribe to the show and select automatic downloads on your podcast app.

Transcript

Mike (00:01)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate Podcast. I'm your co-host Mike along with Lindsay. Lindsay, good morning, how are you?

Lindsay Hiken (00:07)
Good morning. You just made me laugh right before we turn this on. Exactly. It's actually really good. I have a migraine today, so yay. But I took my meds and then doing things that I love like this and laughing I think helps to a certain degree. So yeah.

Mike (00:13)
What are friends for,

Hell yeah.

Good. As

long as it's not too loud and too bright, right?

Lindsay Hiken (00:34)
Yes, it's a little bright. But I think I'll be all right. I think I'll be OK. How are you doing?

Mike (00:43)
Okay. Well, if you

need to go in the witness protection plan and turn your light off, that's just fine with me.

Lindsay Hiken (00:49)
Okay, I'll do that if it gets to be too much, I'll definitely... Anyway, I think most people listen to us and don't look at YouTube, I think. That's my theory. so... Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm a... Watch?

Mike (00:52)
Heh.

Yeah, I think most people are listening.

Who has time to well, maybe. Yeah, exactly.

That's a commitment.

Lindsay Hiken (01:10)
A lot of people watch their podcasts. I've heard a lot of people say, yeah, watched that one on YouTube. And I'm like, same as you, like when? Not that I want to discourage the listener from looking at YouTube, please do. But for me, when I listen to podcasts, I'm like walking around, walking the dog, chores, driving my car. Yeah.

Mike (01:14)
Wow.

Yeah, vacuuming. Driving somewhere.

Lindsay Hiken (01:39)
Exactly,

Mike (01:41)
Well, welcome back to Mike

learns about podcasts in twenty twenty five.

Lindsay Hiken (01:47)
Yeah, the listeners are like, what is it you're doing today? Because this ain't it. Really quickly, though, I wanted to check in and see how you're doing.

Mike (01:52)
Nope.

I'm doing really well today. just got to do. Haven't got a workout in yet and I'm to get one in today later. awesome night of sleep, which is some great middle age talk. And I'm just happy to be back here in California. I was up in beautiful Alaska for awhile and that place is wild, beautiful, wild. And uh, I realized just how much I, you know, I miss people back here. You know, I miss my kids, miss my wife, miss my

Lindsay Hiken (02:09)
Ooh.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (02:26)
friends and I got back a little early than I intended just took it earlier flight and got back in time to see my son's game and help coach and you know for baseball and then see my daughter's game the next day and I was just like I I love this this is where I need to be so the feeling of being where I need to be

Lindsay Hiken (02:46)
That's sweet.

I love that. That is so sweet. That's awesome. Not been to Alaska, hope to go someday, but the only way I think we've talked about this that I'm going to see it as if I'm on a cruise. So and I don't really want to go on a cruise, so we'll see.

Mike (02:50)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

they have black people up there. I've seen them. Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (03:08)
Really? That's

insane. Why would a black person be in Alaska? Why would we ever even venture up there?

Mike (03:21)
Yeah. One of my good

friends I was, I was the station with, um, served within the Marine Corps. think he went on to the air force later, but he was stationed up in Alaska for a little while and told me all about it. And I was like, yeah, I didn't know how they had brothers in Alaska. And he said, yo, yeah, we got a few of us. So yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (03:37)
Wow, they gotta

all be in the military.

Mike (03:41)
You know, good percentage, I'm sure. Yeah, I think with being up in Alaska, they said you're either born there, you're stationed there, or you're escaping something.

Lindsay Hiken (03:44)
Mm-hmm.

Right on the run. Or you saw Deadliest Catch and you're up there fishing trying to make 100k in three weeks or whatever it is.

Mike (03:56)
Yeah, no

kidding.

Lindsay Hiken (04:03)
Well, what are we talking about today?

Mike (04:05)
We are talking about finding the calm amongst the storm, finding the calm in the storm, you know, just how to find peace when there's chaos around you.

Lindsay Hiken (04:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (04:17)
I mean, it's easy to find peace and calm when it's peaceful and calm. But what about when things are in chaos, you know, things are scary or, you know, outside of your control and what do you do then to find that mental strength and that, that resolve and that, that space inside you that has some perspective to look outside and look inside.

Lindsay Hiken (04:22)
Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

So I question for you regarding that.

Mike (04:50)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (04:52)
the storm, like mental, emotional storm that we're referring to that's maybe being caused by something exterior to yourself. Do you feel that physically in your body anywhere?

Mike (05:07)
Yeah. yeah. I feel it in my pit of my stomach sometimes. I can feel it in my throat, in my chest. Maybe my chest gets tight, my throat gets tight. And you know, these are signs of the body going into fight or flight.

Lindsay Hiken (05:24)
Mm hmm. I feel it a lot in my stomach. And then when I have that, have things just like stop working on my body, right? So my lower back, shoulders start aching like really like it feels like I threw my back out, but it's really just stress. And then and then my head, I'm headache prone and migraine prone. So that's the other place that

Mike (05:30)
Mm-hmm.

huh.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (05:53)
that shows up for me. Feels great.

Mike (05:55)
Mm-hmm.

It's

such a pain. mean, literally, it's just, it's all these signs that our body is telling us that we need to recalibrate. We need to do something different because adding to the stress, maybe drinking more coffee or doom scrolling more isn't quite getting us to where we need to be.

Lindsay Hiken (06:10)
Mm-hmm.

It's interesting though that that's the thing I want to do. I want to eat a bunch of sugar and doom scroll and never helpful. We did.

Mike (06:28)
Do we have a meme about that recently? know, like, how's your anxiety?

I'm feeling really anxious. Well, have you tried drinking three cups of coffee in an empty stomach and doom scrolling?

Lindsay Hiken (06:42)
Exactly. I'm curious how the mind works. And I'm not going to have any answers for anybody today on this, but just that gravitation towards things that are not helpful. Like you'd think the mind would be like, OK, what do I need in this moment? I mean, you can have that thought consciously, but

Mike (06:43)
Yeah.

Ahem.

Lindsay Hiken (07:07)
the natural for me anyway, the natural policy to just kind of check out with things that aren't really going to help me as opposed to doing the things that are and I just find it interesting that my brain is going to choose that unhealthy choice naturally.

Mike (07:14)
huh.

Yeah,

that's a good point. I think what's happening, I'm thinking this out loud right now, neurologists, scientists, psychologists can check me in the comments and tell me I'm full of shit, but I think what's happening is that our body is looking for something, it's feeling a threat, and it wants to actually see something so we can do something about it.

Cause if the threat's invisible, then we just have this energy coursing throughout our body and we don't know what to do with it. But if we, if you find the reason, you know, it's like when someone's annoyed and they take it out on somebody who didn't really do anything, the brain's looking for someone or something to blame or to focus that energy on.

Lindsay Hiken (08:03)
Mm-hmm.

Josh, I take it out on Josh. Although a lot of times he is the source of my, but the truth is he's the source of my feeling annoyed and angsty, but not really. You know what I mean? It's like I'm stressed out about something else and then he does something that I hate. An example would be, and I don't know if I've said this before, but he likes to, if he goes to the grocery store or something, he'll put a paper bag.

Mike (08:13)
Poor guy.

you

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (08:39)
open on top of the recycling bin and then just start throwing his trash in there and his recycling instead of just pushing his little foot on the thing that opens the trash can. I think he thinks it's efficient, but I'm like, why do we have trash on top of the trash? And then you open the trash can or the recycling, it's empty. And not only that, but he's throwing like banana peels and cans in this. I'm like, what are we doing? So if I'm having a rough day for some other reason and I walk in and I see that

Mike (08:49)
Ha ha ha.

Lindsay Hiken (09:09)
I'm just like, nah, what the fuck?

Mike (09:12)
That's a huge hell no. Yeah. Yeah.

That's funny. Yeah. I think we all have our own bullshit. I mean, I have my own bullshit. Everyone does. But you see it in someone else, especially if you're annoyed or you're feeling angry or nervous. It's like, think we look for any avenue to let that energy out, which is, I mean, why? mean, spoiler alert working out as part of, you know, finding that calm in the storm because you want that.

Lindsay Hiken (09:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

How about traffic?

Mike (09:42)
What's that getting in traffic? that's wonderful for it. Yeah, that really helps.

Lindsay Hiken (09:43)
How about? Yeah, how does that?

Mike (09:47)
It helps the body when you're anxious to feel stuck, right?

Lindsay Hiken (09:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Just let a bunch of strangers have it even though they can't hear me. Sorry, I interrupted. What were you going to say?

Mike (09:57)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. that,

you know, we're looking, we have this energy. And this where the body's experiencing a feeling. The brain is having thoughts of maybe why we're having this feeling. And the body has all this energy now. What do do with it? And there's a few things you can do you can that my two go tos are

Sitting still or moving, right? I mean, obviously we don't have many other choices than that. But what I mean by that is moving my body in a healthy way and working out, whether it's going for a walk, whether it's swimming, running, cycling, lifting weights, you know, doing something I can do right in the moment there. And walking, I would say is the most underrated form of exercise and mental health strategy there is.

Lindsay Hiken (10:52)
Mm-hmm.

Agreed. Agreed. I want to find the article, maybe we can put it in the show notes if I can find it. But an article came out recently that was talking about how hiking is one of the key things you can do to support longevity. That's specifically hiking, not running in the trails, not cycling, but specifically hiking and just slowing it down a little bit. So walking, hiking, you kind of connecting with your surroundings.

Mike (10:57)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (11:26)
a little bit more because you're not, know, you don't have an elevated heart rate necessarily or, you know, concentrating on where your footsteps have to be exactly. But I'll try to find the article, but I think I'm starting to want to hike more and walk more because of that. And I do agree that it's underrated, especially for endurance athletes.

Mike (11:26)
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. mean, if we're worried about looking at our Garmin watch and it says you're being unproductive, then obviously we can't do that for the sake of enjoying it, can we?

Lindsay Hiken (11:57)
Yeah.

And putting a hike on Strava when you look at everybody else and they're like, I rode 65 miles and I ran, you know, whatever. I'm like, oh, I hiked.

Mike (12:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, some sometimes I'll do that as a I'll put a walk as a hike on Strava and someone's like, nice like through your neighborhood dickhead, you know, and so friends are for right.

Lindsay Hiken (12:28)
feel the need to explain it. If it's gonna be a walk, know, if my Garmin's gonna put a walk in, I'll have to go in there and be like, walking my dogs or doing whatever. can't just like.

Mike (12:33)
Yeah.

justify it. You're like, I think I have shingles so I'm walking or something extreme,

Lindsay Hiken (12:44)
The ego is an amazing thing. So, okay, so moving your body, exercising, walking helps a little bit, finding the calm. What about sitting still?

Mike (12:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Huh?

sitting still. And this is something I learned from a fellow podcasts, the yogi triathlete podcasts with a Jess and BJ, some really cool iron man athletes slash endurance runners slash, meditators and, and yoga practitioners is sitting still, sitting still and breathing.

just whether it's meditating or whether it's just mindful breathing. It's so hard sometimes. It's so hard. And I would say if your body's in the fight or flight and you're, you're worried, maybe meditating isn't the best first step. I'd say maybe doing some movement first, calm the body down a little bit.

Lindsay Hiken (13:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:53)
but there are a lot of occasions where you can just sit and start to breathe, relax your shoulders, know, breathe in and out through your nose if you can and let the feelings kind of move past you. And there's some different imagery that I've used with people when I work with them or for myself, you know, noticing every single thought that you have as

and visualizing yourself placing that on a leaf that's going down a stream. And there are endless leaves because we have endless thoughts and you can keep doing this. But what you're doing is by breathing as you're resetting your nervous system. You're being bring it from fight or flight to rest and digest.

Lindsay Hiken (14:21)
Mmm.

My favorite go-to imagery when I'm doing this practice is bubbles. So I'll put my thoughts in a little, well, my bubbles are, they tend to be pink in color, but I put it in a little bubble and then the bubble bursts. Anything that works is good, but it's the idea of putting the thought on something that can travel away so that you can let it go.

Mike (14:42)
Mm.

Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.

Yeah, yeah. So, as I understand it from more of the psychology lens would be that, you know, what we're doing is we're allowing our body to experience emotions and have thoughts, realizing that we have less control over these thoughts and emotions showing up that we think. And we're showing that we don't necessarily have to do anything about them, but we can let them go by.

Sometimes I envisioned, you know, there's, there's, there's endless imagery you can use, but you know, with, especially if I'm having a lot of thoughts and emotions, I imagine myself as like an aircraft carrier and what, like, you seen those commercials for the Navy? You know, the wave just kind of break off the side of this thing and go around it. And those are the thoughts and the feelings while you're just cutting through them and continuing to exist and move forward. And the thoughts and feelings are there, but you're not them.

Lindsay Hiken (15:44)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mike (16:03)
they can go right past you.

Lindsay Hiken (16:04)
Right, Yes, you are not your thoughts, because they can be a little... When I connect my identity to what my thoughts are about whatever, about myself,

I can get in a little bit of trouble there because my thoughts are not always healthy. They're just, I mean, I think everybody has this just some tape that's playing in your head. That's a culmination of all your experiences and how you were brought up and all of that.

Mike (16:28)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right, right. Sometimes it's just as much bullshit as like a radio commercial. It's just noise. It's noise. It's there based off our experiences, but it's not who we are. And so, yeah, you're right. Getting too wrapped up in that can make us...

Lindsay Hiken (16:42)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:54)
think about thoughts that produce feelings which we then judge and then have more of the feelings based on that and think we're horrible. And then it's this house of cards based on nothing.

Lindsay Hiken (17:01)
Mm-hmm.

I've had a lot of people mentioned to me in terms of meditation, I can't meditate because I have thoughts. And I think the thought there is that meditation is about completely having a mind. And that's not even possible, really. You know, it's not realistic to have a blank mind. The thoughts come and then it's about releasing them and breathing and getting back to

Mike (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

No.

Lindsay Hiken (17:35)
a state of calm, know. So one of the key things is to not judge the thoughts as they come up, you know, like I shouldn't be thinking about my grocery list. I'm supposed to be sitting here like, you know, a master, a Zen master. It's I just will say to myself sometimes thinking, thinking, and then I go back to trying to just sort of like let things go. When I go.

Mike (17:46)
Yeah.

huh.

Yeah, I mean, it's the same

conversation as like, I can't walk because I get tired or I can't lift weights because I get tired. I'm like, of course you do. That's what happens. You're a human. Welcome to the human race.

Lindsay Hiken (18:07)
Mmm.

I can't lift weights because I hate it and I don't show up.

Mike (18:19)
There you go. See? Yeah, with that with meditation,

you're so right that people will say I can't do it because I can't clear my mind. If you had a completely clear mind, then I don't know, maybe you might have a concussion or something else might be going on because I have lots of thoughts and they slow down sometimes, but they're there because my brain is alive and awake.

Lindsay Hiken (18:40)
Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Yeah, when we've and we've talked about on the show before breath work and when I've focused on my breath breathing, sometimes like this just barrage of thoughts will clear out and that feels like a clear mind. But I'm still thinking about something because I'm thinking about my breathing. You know, my brain is never not somehow engaged, you know. And so.

Mike (18:57)
huh.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (19:12)
I think, you know, there's a lot of good books out about meditating if you're someone who hasn't done it. There's also a lot of great apps that you can get. I've used I've used Headspace. I've used Headspace is good. I've used Calm, the Calm app, which is great. And now I use Slow Dive and Slow Dive is definitely more

Mike (19:19)
Yeah.

Headspace, yeah.

Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (19:41)
I would say yogi like maybe even a little new age. might not be as user friendly for brand new meditators. But if you've been meditating for a while, it's great because you can set meditations like Aum, or it's just a very like

Mike (19:46)
huh.

Lindsay Hiken (20:02)
good sound. It's a strong kind of vibrates in your body when you're listening to it. So you can listen to repeated and then you can put a metronome over music if you want a metronome if you want some sort of cadence to your breathing. They do have guided meditations for sure. But you know, if you're sort of like me and your little new agey

Mike (20:08)
That's cool.

Lindsay Hiken (20:28)
you could try Slow Dive. It's a really great app.

Mike (20:32)
That's cool.

I'll share one that I've been using. I just had to redownload it because I haven't used it in the past month. it's called State, S-T-A-T-E. And I got to meet the creator of it, a really cool dude who hopefully will get on the show soon. But.

Lindsay Hiken (20:46)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Mike (21:01)
It's it, it, there's no spiritual component to it. and this one is, is simply, it shows how long to inhale and how long to exhale, depending on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to get energized, if you're trying to calm down, if you're like, if you're trying to fall asleep. So yeah, it's, let me see if I can find all the different applications of it here, but it's,

really cool. it's, it's helped to lengthen how long also I can breathe in and out and find control over my breath. And it helps with endurance sports because it can help you build up tolerance also to how much CO2 is in your body. Whole different topic than we're talking about today, but there's a lot of applications for it. But there's the, I think the point being that I'm around going on about is that

Lindsay Hiken (21:51)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:00)
There's so many applications to what you can do with simply how you breathe. That it's remarkable. You know, in terms of, you know, being able to deal with, you know, heat or cold, deal with stress, deal with racing thoughts to fall asleep, to wake up, to get ready for a race, to calm down from a race, just from breathing.

Lindsay Hiken (22:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, our breath is, you know, well, it's important because without it, we are not alive. But I find that when I'm really in a state of stress, my breathing becomes very shallow.

Mike (22:33)
Hehehe

Yeah, uh-huh.

Lindsay Hiken (22:41)
And

it's, just in the upper part of my body, like in the upper part of my chest, it doesn't reach the bottom of my lungs. It doesn't reach my belly, which if I take a full deep breath, my breath goes all the way down into my belly. And so that's another way I can tell that I'm having some sort of fight or flight reaction is just this like shallow breathing. And that's something that I have to consciously address in order to change, you know,

Mike (23:03)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I would, I would offer this when those things like that happen. I've noticed myself in the past judging myself like, I'm going to fight or fight or flight and, and having a negative judgment against myself for getting in that state. Well, I'm, my body's just reacting to my environment. So then, I, what I found was a little more helpful to, do like what you're doing and say, I'm noticing on getting into the state. What do I want to do?

Lindsay Hiken (23:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mike (23:38)
Do I want to calm down? Do I want to be in the rest and digest and the parasympathetic nervous system? And do I want to do some belly breathing or do I want to amp myself up for something? You know, either, either one's an okay choice. Just depends on what you want to do.

Lindsay Hiken (23:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. I used breathing exercise on the swim during Iron Man Santa Rosa, because I got a little nervous. You know, you start out in those stalls and to get into this water. And for some reason, doing that freaked me out. I don't know why. But I just as I was waiting to get in there, I just got more and more and more and sort of.

Mike (24:02)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (24:22)
nervous, like jacked up on energy, but not the good kind that you need for racing, like the kind that's derail the race. Scattered. Yeah, totally. And I could feel myself getting tired. I could feel my shoulders getting tired. I was just like, Oh, no. And so, because I've done a lot of breathing exercises, I did like, sort of like a four count box breathing a little bit.

Mike (24:28)
Yeah, scattered energy. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (24:52)
And I was just taking it really slow and I was counting my strokes and breathing, breathing every fourth stroke and doing things like that. And then I switched to my norm, which is every third. But it helped to. It helped to get my brain back to in my body and not floating above like, no, it's scary.

Mike (24:59)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, well, it was like Brock said the other week, right? I mean, you put on a wetsuit, that wetsuit panic is real. Because it's constricting you. And then I thought about it further, like you're saying they put you in those little stalls, know, little corrals. So you're further constricted. So it takes some skill, take some skill to be able to breathe yourself through it.

Lindsay Hiken (25:22)
my gosh.

definitely feels confining. And that same feeling is a lot of the times how I feel when something's happening outside of my control, that I don't, you know, want I perceive it as being negative, somehow for me. And it's that same sort of feeling of constriction, the shoulder for me, the shoulders and the tight chest and that like, that's what I get when my wetsuit is constricting me. And

The difference is that when I'm putting a wetsuit on, I'm just choosing to do that. It's not outside of my control. But the way I dress it is the same.

Mike (26:20)
Yes, yeah. mean, the body's reacting to a perceived threat, right? Real or perceived.

Lindsay Hiken (26:27)
Mm Yeah. Little off topic, but still about what we were just talking about. have I'm going to do the wildflower off off road sprint race. Yeah, I'm excited. May 2nd or 3rd, whatever that Saturday is. And I've been feeling a little nervous about the swim because I haven't done an open water swim in a long time, you know, and

Mike (26:40)
nice, that's coming up, right?

Nice.

Lindsay Hiken (26:56)
I'm already feeling like tense about it, like what's going to happen? It's a sprint. It's like 400 meters or something. I mean, I'm not going to be in there for very long. So I've been kind of meditating and trying to. Call myself and just remind myself like I've done this a bunch. It's a short swim. It's going to be fun. This is my hobby. You know what I mean? It's not life or death. I'm going to have a wetsuit on, so.

I can just float if I don't want to swim for some reason. You know, there's all these reasons why all these thought process I'm going through to try to calm myself down about this like storm that my mind is creating around, you know, what the swim is going to be like.

Mike (27:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah. And sometimes the thing about the storm and if we're using that analogy, that metaphor, we don't necessarily avoid all the feelings by doing this work. Sometimes we have some big waves and we go through them, but the breathing helps us recognize that we are on the crest and then falling back down on the other side of a big feeling or a scary thought.

Lindsay Hiken (28:12)
Mm hmm. Yeah, one of the things I liked about racing when I started racing is that it was scary for me, but I did it anyway, you know, and getting through the thoughts and the roadblocks I was putting up for myself was an accomplishment. You know, on the other side, I'm like, wow, I had all these like scary monsters my brain was conjuring up and I faced the fears and did it anyway. And

Mike (28:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (28:41)
That's a great feeling on the other side and it's helpful for all kinds of things in life in the future. Because I'm like, okay, this feels scary to me, this feels uncomfortable to me, but I know I can go through it anyway. So we've talked a lot about sitting and being still and we talked a little bit about moving our body. Do you find that there's a particular workout or type of?

Mike (28:52)
Yeah. huh.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (29:10)
exercise that really helps you. We talked a little bit about walking, but what about like a workout?

Mike (29:16)
Yeah.

Running or walking. It's, if I'm feeling amped up in our feeling out of sorts and just off moving my body and the most basic natural human way is usually walking or running. You know, if, if I'm, if I had a little more concentration, maybe I can do like a hit workout or some kind of

thing involving complex movements with the body, but I just, um, I like the simplicity of walking or running and I realized, you know, I ran, I, I'm back in, I'm back. back. Yeah. Um, a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now, uh, I just, I was like, you know what? I think I'm done with work for the day. So I took off, took some sick leave and, and

Lindsay Hiken (29:57)
Yay!

Mike (30:11)
had an appointment and then went and ran on the trail for a little while. And I was like, this feels so good. There's a need to be any more complicated than that. Being outside and running or walking.

Lindsay Hiken (30:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, that connection of the breath to movement, I think for running is really because it is rhythmic in a way, unless you're me, in which case right now I'm like stopping, starting running, walking, running, walking. So the breath is a little all over the place. But I like that connection that running gives of just like.

Mike (30:34)
Yeah.

rain.

Lindsay Hiken (30:51)
Yeah, it's almost like a little metronome that you get. I'm excited you're back. I appreciate it.

Mike (30:56)
Yeah. Well, cause I had,

I had to feel it. had to feel it. And for a little while I wasn't feeling it, you know, like I just was burnt out of racing was kind of burnt out of the whole iron man scene. And you know, just, needed to feel something. And so when I was running, I felt it again, and not that I rely on every single workout to be this amazing life changing thing. Sometimes you show up and you hate it and you hate it and then you get it done.

Lindsay Hiken (31:25)
Right.

Mike (31:26)
But I needed to that, that, that why again, you know, that connection to my body. and I had that and I was like, yeah, you know, I liked lifting weights. I don't love it. I love endurance sports.

Lindsay Hiken (31:39)
Mm-hmm.

Right, right. Me too. Me too.

Mike (31:45)
Yeah, it's

just how I'm wired and that's how I am and if you the opposite, that's awesome.

Lindsay Hiken (31:51)
Mm hmm. Yeah, a lot of people are not into endurance sports. They think it's a little crazy what we're doing. But any anything you like that's movement, I think is good. For me, it is the swim bike run. I swam a lot last month. I swam 50 K yards and. you set the bar really high.

Mike (31:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. wow. That's 50k more than I swam.

You beat me. I don't know how.

Lindsay Hiken (32:24)
It's like 28 and a half fish miles in 28 days. I didn't swim every day so I swam a little more. You know, I didn't just do a mile a day. I swam about four or five days a week. And it can become really meditative as well, swimming.

Mike (32:28)
Jeez. Yeah.

Wow.

Yes,

that that I will say as much as I talked up running, I think I've loved the swim. It's not as easy to do because you need to have a place to swim. Right. But the feeling I get during and after a swim is one of the deepest body highs, especially cold water swimming. Like, because I started out swimming in San Francisco Bay and it's cold as cold as hail.

Lindsay Hiken (33:04)
Yeah.

Mike (33:11)
You know what I realized? This has nothing to do with anything, Lindsay. But you know when people say cold is hail? It's not hell. It's actually hail. Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (33:20)
is that what it is? I was wondering

about that because hell does. So that's what I. That's what I heard through the grapevine is that hell was like fire and molten lava and stuff. And then people say cold as hell. it's like, hmm. I'd rather have.

Mike (33:26)
I thought it was supposed to be hot, right?

Cause I think

they just thought people were saying it with a Southern drawl.

Lindsay Hiken (33:44)
cold as hell.

Mike (33:46)
Welcome

back to cultural saints with Mike and Lindsay

Lindsay Hiken (33:52)
Well, that makes a lot more sense, though, to be honest. I. Just love to swim, I absolutely love doing Menlo Masters, there's something about a combination of. Swimming and then having like the social piece, because I've done it on that team for a long time and, you know, I see my friends and we get in a swim and then we there's a lot of social part in the in the locker room, which.

Mike (33:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (34:20)
kind of going back to the finding the calm in the storm. A big part of me feeling mentally and emotionally balanced is commuting with other people and people that I love, not just any other person. So doing that like the swim and then seeing my friends after and.

Mike (34:38)
Yeah.

huh.

Lindsay Hiken (34:47)
Chatting it up in the locker room is really helps me feel connected again with people in the universe and that can help put the big thing that's freaking me out. It can help me right size it into my life. It's like, okay, I can zoom out a little, right? It's not all encompassing. And so last month was really amazing. I wouldn't recommend doing it every month. It's a lot.

Mike (35:02)
Yes, that's a good way of putting it.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (35:16)
I

had teammates that did 100K or over 100K in the month. They're a little faster than I. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mike (35:23)
That's 60 miles in a month.

62 miles, excuse me.

Lindsay Hiken (35:31)
Yeah, fast. Really fast. Swimmers. Yeah. No, no, Yards. Not miles.

Mike (35:32)
Jeez.

Lindsay Hiken (35:43)
So it's 100K yards. So yeah, no, that's right. So which is a ton, which is a ton. took me, it took all I had to get to 50. But this month I'm focusing on cycling and the challenge, which I'm not going to meet just because of the time constraints is 50,000 feet of climbing. That's what the team is doing.

Mike (35:44)
Welcome back to the Metric System and Math with Mike and Lindsay.

Yeah.

Ooh, okay.

Lindsay Hiken (36:13)
some of the team, not myself, because to get in 50,000 feet of climbing, you got to get on your bike and start climbing. You really need to put an effort in there.

Mike (36:24)
Yeah, yeah. And I no longer live at the base of Mount Diablo. I used to live right on the base of that and climb that every weekend. No longer. Yeah, no longer, which is okay. So most of my cycling has been stationary.

Lindsay Hiken (36:34)
that's nice.

Yeah, the Zwift climbing does count for this challenge. But a 50 K feet of climbing on Zwift is just I mean.

Mike (36:46)
Mm-hmm.

a lot. I can't just watch the video game. need to watch

something intense. I have to watch World War II in the Pacific with Marines fighting or some kind of action like intense stuff. I can't watch the notebook or something. I will just pedal so slowly the slower the movie is.

Lindsay Hiken (37:03)
wow.

The notebook.

I watch trash TV. That's what I watch. Like I'm watching like the Housewives or something. And I'm like, these bitches are crazy. That's how I get through it. But my coach puts the workouts in there. And so. You it doesn't really give you the option to just soft. You can soft pedal, but it's blinking right at you the whole time, which is hard. Yeah. So when I'm writing.

Mike (37:17)
Yeah.

Get napped up like this, bitch.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Judging you.

Lindsay Hiken (37:43)
I'm having the same experience kind of that you described with running to, know, especially climbing, connecting with the breath and then just being outside in nature definitely helps me bring things back to being right sized in terms of any challenges I'm facing. For me, you know, trying to get the the big scary monster, whatever that is, down to like a manageable size is is

Mike (38:08)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (38:13)
a key part of me actually being able to do these other things like breathe and be calm. It's like, it can't be this all encompassing thing. And so the exercise and the training helps me with that. And it's sort of like zooming out the lens a little bit. You know, if you're in a close up, real close on someone's face, you can't even tell what's happening, right? You can get super so close. You can't even tell.

Mike (38:16)
Yes.

Right.

Lindsay Hiken (38:41)
And if you zoom out, you're like, this is a whole person. And I heard a comedian. gosh, I can't remember what his name Pete Holmes, I think, is his name. And he was talking about being a, you know, a human on Earth. And he was just like, zoom the fuck out. We're just like on this rock, like floating through space, which is infinite. And.

Mike (38:52)
yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (39:07)
It's all it all means nothing. And I was like, yeah, that's true. All the angst and they're like, I must go to my job and do X, Y, I mean, obviously we have to support ourselves, but at the end of the day, You know.

Mike (39:23)
Yeah, like Carl Sagan

said, it's the pale blue dot, right? In the midst of nothingness.

Lindsay Hiken (39:27)
Uh-huh.

I saw a picture the other day of the Milky Way and it had an era where there was this dot that you couldn't even see and it's like Earth is right here.

Mike (39:39)
Yeah, it's such a bizarre perspective,

Bizarre because we're so micro-focused.

Lindsay Hiken (39:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike (39:49)
So

yeah, zooming out a little bit can help.

Lindsay Hiken (39:52)
When I'm mad at Josh about him putting that paper bag on the top of the recycling, I can remember like all of this is meaningless, including the recycling. We're on Earth and Earth is just a speck of sand in a vast ocean, vast beach, or even less than that.

Mike (40:12)
Right.

Right. Yeah, there's I mean, and and I'd say and you might agree or not, but I think I find meaning in a lot of things, even in the small things. But looking at like intention and and of what people are doing and personalizing it can really mess my day up.

You know, like if someone's doing something that's bothering me, it's like, you know, I get in my mind, like they set out their day, they woke up and they're like, I'm going to fuck with Mike and get him mad. Right. By driving like this or doing this thing or sipping my coffee this way. And it's not even about that. It nothing to do with me. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (40:46)
Right.

That's,

I do agree with that. It never has anything to do with me. I mean, we described being annoyed with someone else because of something that's going on in our lives and we can be the recipients of that as well.

Mike (41:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah. And that happens. I always think of, my little, one of my little dogs that I had a few years back, he was so mad that I was like eating chicken wings and I wasn't giving him any, and he wanted one of these chicken wings. And so the other dog came along and kind of looked at it and he just starts barking and trying to like bite the other dog. Cause he's mad. Had nothing to do that other dog. The dog was just like, Hey guys.

Lindsay Hiken (41:44)
Like, why are you attacking me? My dog Zoe likes to attack her sister Pebbles every once in a while. And I think it's the same thing, like nothing even happened. She just is crabby that day. Unfortunately for her, Peppy is from the streets and Zoe is a purebred that went directly from the breeder to us. So has never experienced a moment of hardship, you know.

Mike (41:46)
Yeah, yeah.

Hmm

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (42:12)
and she'll suddenly jump at Pebby. It's only happened maybe four times where she really like went after her, like really trying to attack Pebby. And Pebby just grabs her by the neck and just flips her over. It's like I didn't last on the streets of Tijuana until a 10 month old puppy, you know, by not knowing how to do some shit.

Mike (42:30)
Yeah. What a lay, but I love that. Just

like bring that shit here. That's funny.

Lindsay Hiken (42:36)
And Pebi's like, can

you stop? It's because she'll stand on her, she'll flip her over, then she'll stand on her and be like, I'm going to let you up. Are you going to start more shit? And sometimes she'll get off and Zoe will start again. She's like, all right, flips her over again.

Mike (42:44)
Yeah.

Yeah

Lindsay Hiken (42:53)
And then eventually is always like, OK, OK. Yeah, that's another thing that helps, too, is having getting near an animal. So I have dogs. Mike has dogs. Do you have cats, too? No, me neither. But if you don't have a pet, you can always find one to pet. I mean, even go to a cat cafe and but or go yoga or something. But being around animals really calms me down to just petting my dogs.

Mike (42:56)
man, I love dogs.

No, not anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (43:23)
brings my blood pressure down. It helps me feel calm in the moment. Just, you know, so that's something small that I do. Like say I can't meditate because I'm too like just revved up or whatever. Just hanging around my dogs is like because they live in the moment. They don't remember what happened before and they're not worried about what's going to come. They're like right here right now. And, you know, just giving them a little pet. They'll give me a little kiss, you know, a little lick. And I'm like, OK.

Mike (43:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (43:53)
Life is all right.

Mike (43:55)
that it's in its resets the nervous system. It really does. And I see that at work because I my dog at work with me and people will come in really amped up and maybe they see this dog who's just kind of like stretching, hanging out back. hi. And I think there's a message that gets sent to our brain. I was like, well, that thing will probably be on alert if something was wrong. These are usually subconscious thoughts and so our body and the brain go, okay, maybe, maybe things are okay if I slow down a little bit. So

I agree, yeah, finding time with the dogs always helps.

Lindsay Hiken (44:27)
Yeah, yeah. And like I said, you can find some time with an animal if you don't have one of your own. And I guarantee you'll you'll feel a little bit better just being around. mean, that's why people have emotional support dogs, because it really does. It really does work. And I mean. Don't go finding a wild animal and try to pet it like there are appropriate animals and unappropriate.

Mike (44:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Oof.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (44:57)
I follow an Instagram account called two runs of Yellowstone and it shows people, there's a giant buffalo and they're like coming up trying to take a selfie with the buffalo. And in a couple instances, someone else is recording this of course, like look at this idiot.

Mike (45:03)
my no no petting we're like we're we're petting elk and moose

Oof.

Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (45:23)
I've seen a couple of videos where the, you know, the buffalo is just eating and someone gets close to try to take a selfie and it looks up and it's like, huh? And then it just. Bangs them up into the air, you know what mean? Because it's a frigging huge as wild animal and they're like, I'm going to it's in Yellowstone, I'm going to pet it. And there's signs. Literally everywhere, apparently saying, don't do that, I get the sentiment, they just want to be.

Mike (45:28)
Yeah.

Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (45:54)
close to the animal and it's cool and I love animals as well so I understand the sentiment but having a little respect for wild animals is probably the best idea.

Mike (46:03)
Usually, usually I'd say

Lindsay Hiken (46:08)
Well, what did we learn today? We learned that moving your body or sitting still can help you find calm in the storm. What else?

Mike (46:21)
you know, the importance of animals in our life. just, I think if we simplify it, the body's got some energy when we're amped up and there's ways to get it out that are healthy and there's ways that are unhealthy and we all know, you know, usually which is which. And, I think what we didn't talk about, which is some, some of it up is, it's just,

be able to take a breath and increase your awareness of what's going on will let you make that decision you want to make.

Lindsay Hiken (46:52)
Mm-hmm.

Right, Decision or letting go of the things that you can't change and making and controlling what you can, which is usually your reaction to whatever is happening outside of you. Yeah. Cool. Well, I think we did it and we're at the correct time for our podcast for once. Yeah. Cool.

Mike (47:11)
Yeah. Yeah.

We did it. All

right. Well, Lindsay is always good to chat with you and good to sit down here. I always love this time with you and and to our listeners. Thank you for being here and thank you for listening.

Lindsay Hiken (47:31)
same.

And if you wouldn't mind reading and reviewing us on the podcast app, wherever you listen, it would be greatly appreciated. It helps other people find our show, which could be helpful to them or could entertain them or could just give them some information that they could find useful. But there's algorithms out there and I have no idea how they work, but they...

respond to you guys liking and reviewing this show. So if you wouldn't mind, it would be greatly appreciated by us.

Mike (48:12)
Alright guys, we'll see you next time. Bye.

Lindsay Hiken (48:14)
Bye.