Brock Gibbs writes Nosebleeds and the MAGA Man

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, hosts Mike and Lindsay engage in a lively conversation with author Brock Gibbs about his journey into endurance sports, the inspiration behind his books, and the humorous realities of triathlons. 

Buy the book "Nosebleeds and the MAGA Man" here!

They discuss the liberating experience of breaking societal rules, the challenges of transitioning from hockey to endurance sports, and the panic that often accompanies race day. Brock shares insights from his writing process and the lessons learned through his experiences in triathlons and ultra-marathons. In this engaging conversation, the hosts and guests explore the emotional landscape of sports, the challenges of writing and publishing, and the unexpected connections that can arise between people from different backgrounds. They discuss the importance of finding common ground amidst differences and the power of perception in shaping our interactions with others. The dialogue is filled with humor, personal anecdotes, and insights into the human experience, making it a relatable and thought-provoking exchange.

Takeaways

• Breaking societal rules can be liberating.
• Brock's books explore the humorous side of endurance sports.
• Transitioning from hockey to triathlons was a significant change for Brock.
• Panic is a common experience for many first-time triathletes.
• Preparation is key, but something will always go wrong on race day.
• Endurance sports teach valuable life lessons.
• Brock's writing reflects his real-life experiences in sports.
• The importance of enjoying the journey rather than focusing solely on results.
• Triathlons can be both challenging and rewarding.
• Embracing discomfort can lead to personal growth. Emotions in sports can lead to irrational behavior.
• Generational differences can create misunderstandings.
• Unexpected kindness can bridge political divides.
• Writing a book involves navigating complex themes.
• Perception often overshadows reality in human interactions.
• Common ground exists despite apparent differences.
• Differences among people can be a source of interest.
• First impressions can be misleading.
• Fear of the unknown can lead to prejudice.
• Humanity connects us all, regardless of our backgrounds.

Sound Bites

• "I was terrified of the swim."
• "You live an entire life in an Ironman."
• "I don't want to play anymore."
• "I had a panic attack in the wetsuit."
• "Just show up and do it."
• "Don't mess with Gen X."
• "They've never had a play date."
• "People get afraid by appearances."

Keywords

endurance sports, triathlon, Brock Gibbs, personal growth, breaking rules, running, writing, hockey, panic, preparation, sports, emotions, writing, publishing, connections, differences, common ground, perception, first

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Transcript

Mike (00:01.305)
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co-host Mike and I'm here with Lindsay and a very special guest today. Lindsay, how are you?

Lindsay Hiken (00:10.496)
I'm doing pretty well actually. I actually got sleep last night, which is usually not the case. So feeling pretty stoked this morning. Yeah.

Mike (00:17.531)
Hell yeah. Yeah, that's how you know this is a podcast ran by middle-aged adults as we talk about the quality of sleep.

Lindsay Hiken (00:24.622)
Mm hmm. One other thing that happened last week that I'll just share is that my therapist was like talking to me about rules. And I'm a rule follower and there were rules when I was growing up and lots of instruction. And she said, you know, adults outside of like legal stuff like societal rules don't have rules like you don't have to.

And I was like, what? She's like, can like leave the fridge door open if you wanted to while you were doing something. And I'm like, that's insanity. And so this week I practiced not following rules in my life. And it's been uncomfortable as fuck, but but also very liberating. So I highly recommend it.

Mike (00:58.459)
Yeah.

Mike (01:11.675)
So like what just like leaving the car door open and like going inside or like what kind of rules are we breaking here?

Lindsay Hiken (01:19.406)
It's just little crap that I have hard time letting go. So the toilet paper roll is whichever way Josh puts it on, if he puts it on, previously I was like, you're a murderer if you don't have the roll go a specific way. Had the AC running in my car and the window down, because I wanted fresh air, but I wanted, I didn't want my windshield to fog up, so I had the AC on, but I had it turned on.

Mike (01:36.549)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (01:46.08)
high heat and I had the window down and I was like.

Mike (01:48.539)
What sounds to me like you are waiting for, have you seen those, those, those, uh, I don't know. There's like shorts or clips or reels on, Instagram where someone will do something really funny and the person can't laugh because they have this big meme of Jesus looking at them like, not. So, okay.

Lindsay Hiken (02:02.612)
Yes. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. But it felt pretty good to be like, I don't actually have to tell myself like, don't do that. Don't do this. Don't do that. I can just be like, and I ate bacon, too, which as we know, I have a thing about animals, but I do be loving bacon. So I had some. It felt it felt awkward, but it tasted delicious.

Mike (02:17.947)
Hmm.

Mike (02:28.517)
Yes, the paradox of delicious food from animals that we love.

Lindsay Hiken (02:33.4)
That's right. That's right. So it was awesome. Just thought I'd share that.

Mike (02:35.417)
And on that note, well, thank you. Yeah. I break rules all the time. so that's just me, but maybe this week I'll try following more rules like not jaywalking. We'll see. So today we have awesome special guest, Brock Gibbs coming at us from outside of Montreal. And we're going to talk about his book today, nosebleeds and the Magaman and other adventures about running and getting punched in the face.

Lindsay Hiken (02:47.863)
You

Lindsay Hiken (03:05.346)
You

Mike (03:05.431)
So Brock Gibbs, welcome to the show again, brother. How are you?

Brock Gibbs (03:08.736)
I'm good, thanks, good to be here.

Mike (03:11.001)
Yeah, you're coming from well, your spring break is not the spring break we see on MTV right now. It's negative four up there.

Brock Gibbs (03:20.274)
Absolutely. In fact, we don't even, we refuse to call it spring break now. We just call it the March break.

Mike (03:25.817)
The March break, yeah. Yeah, that's more apt. That's like.

Brock Gibbs (03:28.296)
It's more up because it's definitely not spring. I'm looking out at snow and it's minus four. And that's a good thing. That's going up.

Mike (03:35.683)
Oof.

Lindsay Hiken (03:37.998)
You got your girls gone wild videos are just taking off like the parka like a snow parka like

Mike (03:38.179)
Yeah, wow, yeah.

Brock Gibbs (03:42.752)
Exactly, it's like woohoo sexy lady Look at a toque on that one

Mike (03:47.579)
Yeah. So look at that took on that one. Yeah. Oh yeah. So first things first, I just wanted to get to this. Look, we had the four nations face off and um, I don't know if you're a hockey fan, but that was an excellent finish and excellent, uh, championship game for the USA versus Canada. You know, McDavid coming in with a goal, you know, over time there. Um, yeah. How stoked are you about that?

Brock Gibbs (04:03.173)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (04:16.606)
That was a pretty proud moment, pretty proud moment for us. But what I really, that was a great game. It was one of the best hockey games I've seen in years. But the first match, that's Canadian for you. The first game against the States that Canada lost, whereas in nine seconds there were three fights. Did you watch that game? I used to play junior, like a high level hockey, and every single game that we played started just like that.

Mike (04:18.288)
Yeah.

Mike (04:22.728)
my god, yeah.

Mike (04:35.619)
my god, yeah. I sure did, yeah.

Mike (04:46.248)
my God.

Brock Gibbs (04:46.624)
All of them, 100%. It was like, oh my God, was like nostalgia. It was something.

Mike (04:51.961)
Yeah.

It was a beautiful thing. mean, obviously it looked to me through my bias lenses. Like it was a pretty even match because like, you as far as the fights went in the first nine seconds, right? Because definitely we saw some of our boys from the US eating some ice, you know, so it was it was a nice foreshadowing of a great tournament.

Brock Gibbs (05:05.76)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (05:16.722)
it was. it was just like all the commentators were saying, you're so used to all star type games, just being an absolute sleeper. Like to watch the NBA All-Star game. Why? There's no defense. Not that there's any defense in the NBA anyway, but there's even less in an All-Star game. Baseball is OK, because but but most of them is just my God in football, they don't even bother playing anymore. It's just let's throw football through a tire. OK.

Mike (05:26.177)
Mm-hmm. No defense. Yeah

Yeah.

Mike (05:36.955)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (05:41.88)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (05:41.966)
Hahaha

Mike (05:45.141)
I exactly God yes I saw this meme that said like you know NFL execs hey can we at least try to pretend like we're playing NBA execs can we at least pretend to do some defense and then you know NHL I will literally die for my flag on this ice right now I'm like that's about the size of it that's what we got to see yeah so

Brock Gibbs (05:45.94)
superstar.

Brock Gibbs (05:54.24)
you

Brock Gibbs (06:02.272)
That's about the size of it. Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Lindsay Hiken (06:02.926)
You

Mike (06:11.683)
We, I mean, we want to definitely highlight your book. This is the second book, at least that I'm aware of that you've written. Because we talked about my coworkers think I'm a pro last time we met and I'm trying to think how far back that was. I might have been even pre coded.

Brock Gibbs (06:28.86)
It was COVID. It was right in the thick of COVID because I finished the book just as COVID was starting.

Mike (06:31.202)
Of COVID, Yeah.

Mike (06:36.505)
Yeah. And then Nosebleeds and the Magma Man been out since late fall. Yeah. Yeah. November. That's right. Yeah. So, excellent book. And, you know, I, had the honor of being on, you know, one of the pages, endorsing it like, like anyone should have.

Lindsay Hiken (06:37.462)
All right.

Brock Gibbs (06:43.892)
Yeah, November, November.

Mike (06:58.683)
I was telling people and I wrote it in there. It felt to me like a mix of some great authors like Kurt Vonnegut, Hunter S. Thompson, and one of our American environmentalist authors from Florida, Carl Hyason. it's just great topics and funny.

and your personality just shines through the whole book. You want to take us through like, what was the inspiration to write again? And what was the inspiration to, you know, put together this collection of stories?

Brock Gibbs (07:33.162)
Well, first of all, when I finished the first book, there were some of the stuff that you see in new book I had originally had ready for the first book. But I was told that if a book is 900 pages, one's going to bother. I've got to be honest. I wouldn't have read it. OK, look at that. too big. So some of that was in there. I just like to write. I'm writing now. I constantly, I'm always writing something.

Mike (07:42.715)
Mmm.

Mike (07:52.229)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (08:03.348)
In fact, right now I'm working on a novel which is significantly harder than stuff that actually happened. I got accused of making some of this stuff up and none of the stuff in those two books was made up at all. But when you're trying to make something up, it's like, I'm totally lost. You're trying to write the whole book in one sitting. You got the whole story in your head and I got to get it all out and you don't.

Mike (08:17.842)
yeah.

Mike (08:25.017)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (08:30.174)
Can I ask a quick question before you go on? Could you do two quick synopsis of each book just for people who are listening so they have an idea of what to expect when they buy your first book and then what to expect with the second one?

Brock Gibbs (08:45.152)
Sure. The first one is called My Coworkers Think I'm a Pro, which is just basically an exploration of what a typical age group amateur newbie triathlete will go through. All the experiences that you get from your first triathlon with being terrified of the swim that Leith I was and when you put on a wetsuit and all the panic that goes through and all the quirky sort of things that non-triathletes

Mike (09:06.884)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (09:15.102)
would never think about like stuff in transition. And I still look at when I go into transition zone and I see people setting up all their stuff and how long they stay in transition. I don't understand that. But all that kind. I just look, I think I have to pretend to do something. but I got stuff like that. It's all it's about basically the life of an amateur. It's all true stuff that happened to me. Triathlete, the the new book.

Lindsay Hiken (09:26.528)
I'm one of those.

Mike (09:27.833)
Lindsay's one of those.

Mike (09:34.052)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (09:34.092)
Huh.

Brock Gibbs (09:45.094)
is just a series of, they were originally, some of them were originally blog posts. And I expanded on them and they're individual stories. None of them actually necessarily connect with each other. The first book is like, it's a chronological thing. This one jumps all over the place and you could read, you could open the book and read any chapter and not read any of the other ones and it would stand alone. Whereas with the first book, you wouldn't understand what's going on unless you.

Lindsay Hiken (10:11.818)
Okay.

Brock Gibbs (10:15.252)
read before and after.

Lindsay Hiken (10:16.78)
Also about triathlon and endurance sports or something else? Okay.

Brock Gibbs (10:20.058)
Mostly, yeah. Both books, I bring in real life experiences to show how triathlon can be, or running or whatever, can be like things you experience in life. Like people will often say, you live an entire life. You learn everything you need to know about yourself in an Ironman, which is almost true. Like it's all there. Hatred, it's there.

Mike (10:21.775)
soon. We've got a few...

Lindsay Hiken (10:45.634)
Yeah.

Mike (10:45.763)
Yes.

Brock Gibbs (10:47.157)
of yourself and others frustration, elation, fatigue, all that stuff, hunger.

Mike (10:49.676)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (10:53.462)
I learned I can overcome my fairly severe germaphobia late in the day when I have to use a port-au-potty. like, just, mean, you know, it is what it is. I won't die.

Brock Gibbs (10:57.994)
Hahaha

Mike (11:01.207)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (11:03.506)
Yeah, this is happening. I don't care how about my shoes anymore. It's just that we got to do this. And the sound that you make, usually it's like you're really trying when you go to public baths and you cough or something, but it's like, okay, we've all done this.

Mike (11:05.285)
This is happening.

Lindsay Hiken (11:07.532)
Yeah, that's right.

Mike (11:09.04)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (11:19.392)
is what it is.

Mike (11:20.357)
People are running farting on the chorus and everyone's like, all right, there we go.

Brock Gibbs (11:23.808)
Yeah. In fact, one of the one of the ultra marathons I did, I was late in the race. was in Portland. Pacific Crest Trail 100 or something. And we were near the end of the race and I was hurting and I had just finished. I went off into the woods to to drop a deuce. And so I come back on the trail and this 45 year old woman passed me and right in the middle of the trail.

Lindsay Hiken (11:33.726)
huh. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (11:51.84)
popped a squat right in front of me and it was a number two and I'm thinking there you go ultra running welcome to welcome to Oregon yeah exactly but whatever okay you do what you got to do

Mike (11:57.115)
There you go.

Lindsay Hiken (11:57.267)
Right. Hey, bring pull it over lady just a little bit so we don't have to jump around your poop.

Mike (12:05.839)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (12:08.526)
Yeah, Yes, the the the whole societal agreement with using the bathroom is it is different when I have on a cycling kit than when I have on like work clothes. Like I would never go to work and pay between two cars. You know what I mean? Like. Right. Well, yeah, that's.

Mike (12:09.339)
You

Mike (12:13.147)
you

Brock Gibbs (12:23.651)
yeah.

Mike (12:24.033)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (12:28.576)
No, I'd get arrested personally because I'm out of high school, but it's frowned upon.

Lindsay Hiken (12:35.8)
I'm an accountant, don't know that. But I would feel like I was crazy, But cycling kid, I'm like, I gotta do what I gotta do.

Mike (12:37.593)
Yeah, it's frowned upon.

Brock Gibbs (12:39.06)
Yeah. yeah, you're absolute crazy person.

Yeah, even just on a training run or ride. So, well, it's your fault for having a restaurant here. It's Tim Hortons. What do you expect?

Mike (12:45.177)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (12:47.246)
Mm-hmm.

That's right.

Mike (12:53.765)
pretty much. You know, they asked for it.

Lindsay Hiken (12:57.816)
You

Mike (12:59.599)
Yeah, I think the same applies to me too, because I'm generally getting off my bicycle when I'm training to use, you know, to pee versus a race where I'm just, no, we're going, we're not, we're gonna go in less than 10 miles per hour while this happens.

Brock Gibbs (13:06.676)
Yeah.

Yeah, or...

Yeah, you want to draft? Be my guest.

Lindsay Hiken (13:15.95)
I cannot pee on my bike. And I tried once in the Santa Cruz 70.3. I was like, OK, because I'm very slow in transition and I will pull over and just like go into the porta potty on like a Olympic distance. You know what I mean? Which makes it huge. So I'm like, OK, I'm going to just go. My body was like, no, you're not. You're not.

Mike (13:17.707)
Exactly.

Brock Gibbs (13:41.384)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (13:42.03)
You're just not. mean, I was trying everything and I was like, all right, well, I guess I'll just hold it. My body's like, you're not doing that either. And I'm like, I guess I'll pull over. You support your body. And my body was like, ding, ding. That's what we're going to do. That's right. And then I was like, but I'm going to also come in like 35th place. So really, do I need to be? mean, what's the difference between 37 and 35th? Who cares?

Brock Gibbs (13:47.029)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (13:50.912)
Curtain number three.

Mike (13:54.292)
Exactly.

Brock Gibbs (14:01.421)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike (14:05.123)
Yeah, I wanted to ask Brock, how did you get into endurance sports and how long you've been in the game? Because I know you've been out this a while and pretty accomplished, you know, between triathlon and ultra distance events. And I mean, how'd you come to this insanity that we call endurance?

Brock Gibbs (14:19.534)
Brock Gibbs (14:23.392)
Well, the first thing was I got to the age where I was an adult. I'm an adult now, so hockey was no longer an option. I wasn't going to make it to the NHL. I didn't even really, I got kind of frustrated with it because, like I said before we were talking, how every single game I played was lots of fighting. And that's fun for a while. Like when the police are on the ice.

Mike (14:32.08)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:45.413)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (14:51.39)
I'm

Brock Gibbs (14:51.396)
and the players are up in the stands and it looks like the movie Slapshot. to it, you kind of, it's like I'm in university now, I'm playing college hockey. I was like, okay, well, I don't want to play anymore. So I quit that and I needed to find some something because I can't stand not being in shape. So I would always kind of run just to keep myself fit. And a friend of mine, when I was living in Vancouver, so I'm entering a 10K this weekend. Do you want to go?

Mike (14:55.802)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (15:21.63)
You know, sure, I don't really know what to expect. You know, I don't even have proper running gear, just have shoes and jean shorts and stuff like that. And I went in and I figured so long as I could kind of keep him in sight, I've done well. And we finished and like he was way behind me. I thought, this is kind of fun. And then just kind of it went from there. And in terms of triathlon, I explained this in my my first book, my co-workers thinking my bro, pro a bro.

Mike (15:27.621)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (15:50.747)
That's the next book.

Brock Gibbs (15:53.06)
That's the next book. I'll be on Joe Rogan podcast if I do it. But I had I would been running and I was going to the Boston Marathon to compete or compete to run. And it's five hour drive, five and a half hour drive. So I at that time, I got myself a book on CD for the car. And I thought it was.

Lindsay Hiken (15:53.166)
you

Mike (15:56.534)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (15:57.392)
my gosh.

Brock Gibbs (16:21.952)
Walk in the woods and when I popped it in the machine it ended up being Lance Armstrong's book and I found it really really interesting and The title of the book is it's not about the bike, but it was the bike stuff that I was really interested in so from then on I just devoured everything cycling and I figured I want to do a bike race and the only Way I could think of doing a bike race was in the middle of a triathlon. It's the only bike race I heard of that adults do That aren't you know?

Mike (16:47.257)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (16:50.036)
professionals. So that's what I did. I trained and then I went into my first triathlon and almost panicked to death in the swim. was just brutal.

Mike (16:51.184)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (16:54.798)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (16:59.8)
What distance was it?

Mike (17:00.827)
you

Brock Gibbs (17:01.246)
It was a sprint try. So I mean, it was over in like 20 minutes, but the swim was warped boy, was I scared?

Mike (17:09.955)
yeah. Yeah, it's it's I realized how common that is with people, you know, did one of my first triathlons with my brother-in-law down in sunny San Diego, perfect weather, you know, nice, nice vibes. And he's an accomplished swimmer growing up swim team his whole life. And he had a panic attack in the wetsuit. Wetsuit will do it to you like you talk about. And, know, it's so interesting how we come to the sport, because for me, cycling was the last thing.

The cycling for me was just like, all right, motherfucker, I guess I'll get on this bike was I think, you know, the thoughts I had if I'm paraphrasing, but I, um, I mean, yeah, I loved, I love running. That was came natural, learned to swim next. And then it's, it's, it's interesting. Here's one for you. Um, before my first 70.3, I think I was

Like training mostly with a hybrid bike, you know, just ride around the neighborhood, you know, getting the time distance in here's here's Mike. Here's Mike's Google search three weeks before Ironman 70.3. Santa Rosa was, is there a technique to cycling?

Turns out, turns out, turns out there is there is. Yeah. So I found that out and I, then I had the holy shit panic moment. Like, I don't know if I can do this for 56 miles.

Brock Gibbs (18:22.246)
You

Lindsay Hiken (18:22.262)
Nope, there's no technique.

Lindsay Hiken (18:34.018)
Technique number one, you can get through it on a hybrid, but you're sitting straight up like you're like riding in an 1800s bike and it's gonna suck. Exactly.

Brock Gibbs (18:38.164)
Yeah.

Yeah, you're a snowplow. It's like a penny farthing. I had the same type of experience, but with the wetsuit for the swim. Like two weeks before, the race was in Connecticut. Again, another five, six hour drive. think, okay, I don't know, I probably should get a wetsuit, because you know, like the stuff that I've seen on YouTube, everybody's got a wetsuit. So I went out and I bought a wetsuit, and I'm in the store, put it on up to my waist, and I felt this is fucking amazing. I didn't even zip it up. Like, why do I need to? I'll take it.

Mike (18:43.484)
yeah.

Mike (18:48.528)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:07.695)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (19:11.136)
beautiful. And the second time I put it on and the first time I put it on all the way was at the race in Connecticut. I went to let's go do a warm up zip. I'm not even in the water yet. I want to die. I couldn't even breathe. It was horrible. And then I walked into the water and you don't feel the water touching you. You know, like it's not touching my leg directly. And it was just everything was so weird.

Mike (19:11.375)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (19:11.406)
you

Mike (19:19.131)
classic.

Lindsay Hiken (19:19.202)
How'd feel?

Lindsay Hiken (19:25.038)
Yeah. That feeling.

Mike (19:25.231)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (19:33.261)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (19:33.423)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (19:37.09)
Yeah.

Did you get the water coming in? Because my first race, my big mistake, now, I had been swimming a little bit with my team with my wetsuit on. So I had some idea. But what I didn't know was to get water in my suit to begin with during warmup. And my race was in colder water than I had been practicing in my wetsuit. So.

Mike (19:57.612)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (20:07.822)
I didn't know to do that. So I felt comfortable in the wetsuit. I'm like, got this, got this. Nope. Because as soon as the cold water went in, that feeling of panic came. Yes, exactly. I did that. And then it was like panic time all the way around, all the way around the little sprint distance, like 500 meter course, you know? So there's a lot to it. right. So if you're new to triathlon and you're listening to this couple quick.

Brock Gibbs (20:15.36)
Yeah

Mike (20:27.195)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (20:35.982)
pointers here that you just heard from the guys. Don't Google shit like two weeks out. Google now if you're gonna Google and start taking.

Mike (20:41.423)
Yeah. Go ahead. Google now.

Brock Gibbs (20:41.888)
Or don't at all. Just go. Just show up and do it.

Mike (20:48.047)
just show up and just live that experience and be like, holy shit.

Brock Gibbs (20:52.292)
Yeah. Either way, you're still going to panic. Put it this way, something for sure is going to go wrong, whether it's major or minor. Is there something that for you, you're going to consider it as having gone wrong?

Lindsay Hiken (20:52.386)
That is an option for sure.

That's true. That's true.

Mike (20:58.17)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (21:09.132)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:09.381)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's part of it. That's, that's probably the most sage advice I've heard for a triathlon because you, so many of us, I can't take credit for being one these people, but our type a, and so we show up to these races and, everyone's focused on like, you know, your time per mile or kilometer and, and, and your splits and this and that. And, you know, something's going to go wrong and

Brock Gibbs (21:12.383)
Ahem.

Brock Gibbs (21:22.43)
Yeah

Lindsay Hiken (21:36.472)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (21:37.515)
If you're too type A or too focused on that, it's going to it's going to derail you completely.

Lindsay Hiken (21:42.977)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Gibbs (21:43.134)
yeah, even if it's just like at one race I was in in Tremblant, I had already done a lot of triathlons. And you know, I'm the type of guy that kind of wants to win my age category, or I was. I haven't raced in a while. And I got a drafting penalty, which was bullshit. I'm just gonna state it right now, it bullshit. But anyway, I got over it. like I got...

Mike (21:55.589)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:02.236)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (22:11.636)
angry at the poor marshal. Like I used all the words. One starting with C, one starting with B. All the words got used. Both languages. And it's like what's, it's kind of like when I was coaching basketball, you know, you'd see the other coach who's younger. Usually it's the young guys. They're losing their shit at the ref. And I'm thinking, do you really think this guy's going to change his mind now? Like,

Lindsay Hiken (22:16.088)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:16.409)
French and English?

Mike (22:23.227)
Yes

Mike (22:39.887)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (22:40.352)
Because you're yelling at him? Do you think that's gonna help you? I don't think so. Sorry, that's right. I'm gonna put you on the back of the motorcycle and take you to the front.

Lindsay Hiken (22:43.982)
He's gonna go, my bad.

Mike (22:45.828)
Yay.

Mike (22:50.427)
Yeah, I'm sorry swearing middle aged man, but I see your point now and it's well taken. You really opened me up to receive criticism and constructively by the way you approached me. So good point.

Brock Gibbs (22:53.312)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (23:00.814)
.

Brock Gibbs (23:01.632)
Especially if the person's younger. I don't know how many times I've been called a boomer recently, but it's like, dude, fuck off, Gen X.

Mike (23:06.554)
my god.

Lindsay Hiken (23:09.762)
my gosh.

Mike (23:11.968)
Fuck off. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (23:12.65)
Yeah, exactly. Don't mess with Gen X. Don't mess. I don't know, Mike, if you've heard, but we're essentially considered feral at this point, Gen Xers, because we were raised a little bit, you know, on our own. And I know that Gen Z gets this. They look at us and they go if they can discern between a boomer and a Gen Xer. I've heard I've seen memes on TikTok saying, you know.

Brock Gibbs (23:20.192)
Yeah.

Mike (23:32.25)
Yeah.

you

Lindsay Hiken (23:35.82)
Just everybody leave these Gen Xers alone. They don't care. Their feelings don't get hurt. They will crush you verbally and physically. They're feral. Just exactly. They're like, just shh. Don't call them. Don't summon the Gen Xers. They're crazy.

Mike (23:42.287)
Yeah.

Mike (23:46.287)
They've never had a play date. They've been running wild in the neighborhoods.

Mike (23:54.459)
Yeah, I'm I know, tried their first cigarette at like 10 or 11. So like, you know, it's Yeah, that's a I'm I'm I'm in the gap, right between the millennial and Gen Xers. They call us like, X anials or it's a the late 70 like first couple years of 80 births. So

Brock Gibbs (23:56.096)
They've been drinking coffee since they were seven.

Lindsay Hiken (23:58.326)
That's right.

Brock Gibbs (24:02.304)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (24:03.502)
you

Mike (24:23.099)
I'm young enough to know how to use the computer and internet and everything, but I'm old enough to know what it's like to go to the fucking library and like look things up in the Dewey Decimal System card catalog.

Brock Gibbs (24:33.695)
Yeah, look through index cards, okay.

Lindsay Hiken (24:35.182)
my gosh, that was crazy time.

Mike (24:39.683)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Or where knowledge was like given to you by some fucking guy in your you know, like your friends basement. They're just like older brother just smoked a lot of weed and just had his opinions and everything like, well, that's my source of knowledge or my dad. So

Lindsay Hiken (24:53.454)
That and encyclopedias. So I was just going to say something about being a Gen X, but I forgot. if it comes up in my brain, I'll I'll I'll bust in with it. We don't remember. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (24:54.848)
Yeah, exactly.

Brock Gibbs (25:05.427)
That's the other thing about just Gen Xers. That. What was I talking about? Who cares? Fuck it.

Mike (25:08.205)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know in mid mid rant.

Lindsay Hiken (25:15.062)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I know what it was. I could not do this now, but Brock, do you remember being able to find your friends at like a concert without a phone? Like how you know what I mean? Like, I don't even know how we met up, but I'd go to like I went to reggae Sunsplash at the Hollywood Bowl and just like found my friends, you know, and if you tried to tell me to find my friends now in a group of.

Mike (25:17.381)
What?

Brock Gibbs (25:26.025)
yeah.

Mike (25:26.149)
Mike (25:34.884)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (25:35.111)
yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (25:39.97)
five people at a coffee shop. I'm like looking at my phone like where you know, that's right, drop a bit. That's right.

Mike (25:43.011)
Send me a pin. Yeah, I don't know which table.

Brock Gibbs (25:44.51)
Yeah. Or you're talking to like my son, he's 15. And yesterday he went night skiing. We do that here. he's got a phone. He's got all the apps. There's all the different things you can use. He has no idea what time he's meeting his friend at or where. It's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? I know where you're meeting your friend. It's not hard. Use that little device that's glued to your hand.

Lindsay Hiken (25:52.814)
Mm.

Mike (25:59.44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:08.567)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:11.854)
You

Mike (26:13.423)
Yeah, that was the old days where you'd pre-arrange a plan, meet there, or if not have a contingency on where you went next. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:17.582)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Gibbs (26:22.079)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:22.966)
Right. And people would wait. That's the thing that people don't do now. Like if I got to the place where my friends and I were meeting and they weren't there yet, I would just stand there and just wait. Now it's like, well, where are you? What's happening? Should we meet? And then you might change the meeting. You know, it's it's a whole thing now. Whereas before you would just stand there like, no, my friends will show up at some point and I'll I'll meet up with them. Except for that time when I took acid, that didn't go so well.

Mike (26:31.514)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Gibbs (26:31.795)
Yeah.

Mike (26:39.844)
Yes.

Brock Gibbs (26:45.33)
Yeah, yeah. I met everybody that day.

Mike (26:46.191)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:52.95)
Yeah, that's let's say I met everybody but my friends and those are the people I needed. So. OK, so tell us a little bit more about your book. were we were going to get to what your motivation was for writing it and kind of the why behind it. So, you know, 40 minutes later, let's circle back to that.

Mike (26:53.231)
Yeah.

Mike (26:59.183)
Yes.

Mike (27:13.509)
Mm-hmm

Brock Gibbs (27:13.952)
Well, let me say this about the book. think and might have, based on sales so far, I think I made a couple of mistakes. One, my editor is in England and I'm from Canada. And we decided that we should call the book this, which is Nosebleeds and the Magaman, and have the word MAGA written and read brightly on the cover and releasing it right around the time of the US presidential election.

Lindsay Hiken (27:40.685)
Ooh.

Mike (27:41.011)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (27:42.644)
I don't know. I think people read the title and are afraid by it. On either side. know what mean? Like, this some pinko snowflake lefty or is this a maggot dude? And you people don't.

Lindsay Hiken (27:47.438)
We're gonna see how.

Mike (27:47.619)
Right, right, right.

Lindsay Hiken (27:57.238)
Or are we gonna see a wave of red hats and triathlon and ultra running, just a wave of just.

Brock Gibbs (28:00.576)
Exactly. Yeah, with the pickup truck running the whole time in the parking lot because I'm charging my phone. Okay.

Mike (28:00.731)
You

Mike (28:07.173)
Yeah.

Mike (28:10.689)
Exactly.

Charge my phone and this fucking environments getting out of control. We got a fucking take it down a notch, right?

Brock Gibbs (28:17.344)
you

Lindsay Hiken (28:17.774)
That's funny. So what did you mean? What were you thinking when you when you created that title?

Brock Gibbs (28:20.8)
Yeah. So that...

Brock Gibbs (28:28.478)
Well, that's the title of the longest story in the book. And I thought it was the, I guess the best, my favorite story in the book. And it has a Maga man in it. And that's kind of the whole thing is that I'm not a Maga guy. I'll say it straight out. I'm a leftist, left kind of guy. Studied politics in college and everybody who does that tends to be a little on the left.

Mike (28:32.25)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (28:42.059)
Brock Gibbs (28:58.316)
And I had, watch cable news all the time, CNN, MSNBC, and from, and some from time to time, Fox. And up here looking at those mega people, they're like a caricature to me. It's, it's funny. It's, it's, it's a joke. And you also have an image that they're ignorant and vile and violent and all these things. So when I

Mike (29:16.997)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (29:27.572)
went to St. George, Utah for the World Championships just after the pandemic. Actually, it was kind of still going on, but 2021, the 70.3 World Championships, I had this feeling when I booked my flights and everything that something big was going to happen at the race. I didn't know what it was, but I assumed it's because this is my first time traveling since COVID, that must be it. And the whole time I was in St. George, I had this feeling that something's going to happen.

I don't know what it is, but there's got to be something special that's going to happen. And lots of things did happen, but none of them felt special. Like the main thing that happened was I crashed my bike going 70 kilometers an hour, broke my collarbone, my pelvis, my ribs, and scraped. I didn't have any skin on the left side of my body anymore. Major problem. And I got transported to the hospital.

Lindsay Hiken (30:09.025)
Oof.

Mike (30:09.659)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Brock Gibbs (30:23.804)
in the waiting room of the hospital. was a whole bunch of people. No, you know, like I said in the book, this is not the part of Utah that they put the travel brochures. The people, you know, like there's a couple of tweakers in there. There was an old crooked lady, looked like a question mark. And she just kept complaining about the about how cold it was in there. I'm cold, I'm cold, I'm cold. It's like, OK, is it Yarya? OK.

Mike (30:33.549)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (30:37.72)
Yeah.

Mike (30:41.351)
Brock Gibbs (30:52.76)
And, and over off to my right, far away was a mega guy and picture a mega person in your head. That's exactly what he looked like. The hat with all the t-shirts that said, you know, pro Trump, pro guns, pro life, pro everything. And, dirty and just, I just looked at it. fuck. I don't know about this guy. I don't like anybody in here right now. And I'm in a lot of pain, but I said to myself, if I were to fall out of this wheelchair, nobody here would help me.

Mike (31:00.412)
huh. Yeah.

Mike (31:17.851)
you

Brock Gibbs (31:22.856)
and definitely not that guy. And of all the people in here, I don't want to have help me. It would be that guy. So I'm sitting in the chair and I had my wallet on the armrest of the chair and I moved because I was uncomfortable and I knocked the wallet off and it fell on the floor. Now I have to try and get up and pick this up and nobody helped me except the MAGA guy. He came all the way over and he sat with me for a while. We had a discussion.

Mike (31:25.2)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (31:25.443)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (31:46.734)
Wow.

Brock Gibbs (31:50.784)
He bought me a smoothie from Jamba Juice and all kinds of stuff. It was so surprising to me that the one person I thought would never help anybody, definitely not me, with the long hair and the, you know, I still in my tri-suit with a bone sticking out of my shirt that you could see. But no, he came over, totally comforted me, and at the core of it all is that...

Lindsay Hiken (31:53.408)
Huh. That's smoothie.

Mike (32:02.479)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (32:07.438)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (32:20.38)
all that crap, that's part of who we all are. We all have our little thing. But at end of the day, we're all just like he said today, we're all just trying to walk each other home. And it's like, okay, well, I guess so. Like we're all humans. We're all, if he's burning, I'm gonna try and, I'm gonna ask first, do you support Donald Trump or who are Are you gay or are straight or are you black, white, you know, you just help.

Mike (32:31.801)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (32:43.023)
You

Lindsay Hiken (32:44.023)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:46.203)
Right, right.

Lindsay Hiken (32:48.91)
Mm hmm. I think that's one thing that Mike and I like about or it's one thing I like about working with Mike is that we appear very different. Like I'm middle age, you know, like we talked about Gen X. I'm a black female. I've been I mean, you know. I skew very, very liberal and I'm not commenting on Mike's skew. I'm just saying for me, I skew like progressive, probably because I'm a woman of color.

And, you know, Mike's not he's pale as a ghost. Ginger, you know, and different generation and was in the military and, you know, and I think I've had some eye opening experiences. Mike's a hunter, not a hunter, you know, and.

Brock Gibbs (33:24.48)
He's a ginge.

Mike (33:26.203)
I'm a geng, man.

Mike (33:41.391)
you

Lindsay Hiken (33:45.31)
when we do sit down and talk with people who are not normally, who we would say are not like us and just talk as human beings, you go, well, we have more in common than we have different. If we could just get out of our own way with some of the trappings that we put on ourselves, you know, I'm on this side, you're on that side, I'm this color or that color or gender or whatever it is.

then I feel like, know, at end of the day, we're just humans. It's just figuring out how to actually have that conversation is super hard right now. It just doesn't happen.

Brock Gibbs (34:16.798)
Yeah, it's hard right now. if we could, and also, yeah, we're all humans and we're all similar in our humanity, but it's all those differences. Like Mike is a hunter, he was in the military. I'm vegan. I've never had a gun in my hand. I've never been on a motorcycle. But those differences, that's what makes us all interesting.

Mike (34:16.879)
It is.

Mike (34:29.071)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (34:42.094)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (34:42.189)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (34:42.816)
That's what, like, if I sat down next to a person just like me, the first five minutes would be great. You do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The kind of stuff you do when you meet a person in a bar and you're trying to pick them up and you agree with everything they say, even though you don't. It's boring, right? Like, it's really boring. And once you get past those first five minutes, it's OK. Well, I don't know. This is interesting. There's no I just I was just listening to another podcast this morning. This American Life. I don't know if you ever.

Mike (34:45.819)
Thank

Mike (34:53.4)
huh.

Lindsay Hiken (34:55.352)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (35:05.74)
Yeah, that's true.

Mike (35:05.871)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (35:12.321)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mike (35:12.365)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (35:13.396)
and it was about lying, like the stupid things people lie about. And the first person they had on was an autist, someone with autism. You know, mild on the spectrum autism. And I teach a lot of autistic kids and they're my favorite because they don't know how to lie. There's no bullshit. Yeah, sir, your teeth are yellow. Why?

Mike (35:30.539)
Yes, yes. Yeah. Exactly. The same way you get with the young kids, right? Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (35:36.594)
I drink too much coffee.

Brock Gibbs (35:43.248)
Exactly. It's just there's no filter. It's just boom. Here it is.

Mike (35:47.087)
like Uncle Mark, why are you eating that much food? You're too fat. Like, yeah, it's a the what I love to about about that honesty and and, you know, going back to your book to about the intersections and cross sections of people. It's like, the humanity really comes through, you know, when we sit down and talk with people and, and

Brock Gibbs (35:49.28)
You

Mike (36:10.915)
I love one of my favorite things still in this book is your intro with comparing a Try Guy to Guy Fieri and how it comes together and it works with every single part of it. finding these threads of commonality and bridging these gaps and having the humanity really shine through is what I love about this book and makes it work.

Brock Gibbs (36:19.785)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (36:36.606)
Yeah, I wrote that intro last. I had written the whole book and I thought to myself, unlike my first book, none of these stories kind of fit together. And I didn't even try, but I was just sitting down thinking, I wonder how I could get that to fit. And I thought of, well, that story. But before that, I thought about the painter that I talked about, Chuck Close. I don't know if people are familiar with him, but.

Mike (36:40.953)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (37:03.035)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Gibbs (37:06.622)
most of his paintings are these gigantic pieces that are made up of tiny individual squares or circles or what have you shapes. And if you get close enough to it, you're looking at from a really close, it's just a blur. It's pretty, it's beautiful. It's, you know, it's fantastic. And you think, well, that's really, really, really nice. But what is it? And then you step away from it. And the further back you go, this this image comes into focus. It's no longer blurry.

Mike (37:22.479)
Yeah.

Mike (37:28.9)
You

Mike (37:35.105)
Hmm. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (37:36.64)
and you can see what the picture is underneath all of the crap. And that's kind of what I thought about this book. when I reflected on that story that I tell at the beginning of the typical triathlete that I saw at the airport, and he was wearing it all, the compression socks, the Oakley wrap around goggles, the chems, chems, I don't know what you call, tank top in the airport.

Mike (37:42.031)
Yes.

Mike (37:53.689)
Yeah.

Yes.

Mike (38:04.409)
Yep.

Brock Gibbs (38:06.282)
fucking does that right instantly two watches that's like one for cuz that one's got the power and this one dude fuck off you're gonna you're coming in like a hundred and fifty-fifth you know it's like who cares and a sunburned head and had the visor and not the cap and it's like my god and my friend thought dude look at this fucking loser and I'm thinking yeah but I kind of like it reminds me of Guy Fieri

Mike (38:07.555)
Yeah, two watches too. Yeah, two watches.

Mike (38:19.535)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (38:26.073)
Oof. Yeah.

Mike (38:32.773)
Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (38:33.394)
And my friend is like, what are you talking? Doesn't look like Guy Fieri at all. Think of yeah, but but think about it. Like if you watch that diners, drive ins and dives guy, he's he's a porrent. It's just like he looks like a dork. Right. The glasses on the back of the head, the frosted tip spiky hair, the the shut the front door guy and all that crap. It's individual thing.

Mike (38:53.221)
Prosthetists, yep.

Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (39:00.084)
just like those paintings by Chuck Close, each individual square is meaningless. It's awful. It's something I don't like. Put it all together though, and it works for me. Like I watch that show all the time and I love the guy. I I don't know if I like him in real life, but he works on the show. Even like rock stars, you know, like you, come on now. Michael Jackson with the glove and the funny shoes. Come on, look like an idiot.

Mike (39:12.237)
It works. Yeah. Yep.

Mike (39:19.941)
Yeah.

Mike (39:27.631)
Hehehehe

Brock Gibbs (39:28.276)
But holy shit, it's good. You know, it's really good.

Mike (39:30.991)
Yeah. Yeah. It works. Right. Yeah. It's, it's exactly. And fun fact that where I live, Guy Fieri is a, a hometown hero guy. he's like, he's like just up the road for me. And I have the same reaction. All these things are just like, it's, it's ridiculous. And then you see the guy out there like in real life too.

Brock Gibbs (39:49.459)
Yeah.

Mike (39:53.477)
Probably a decent guy. He's serving lunch for thousands of people for like when we had their fires out here and everything. But that aside, yeah. When you you back up and you see the complete package, it works. And what I love about that, too, is I think the timing of it of your book is perfect in terms of being able to see people that way and being able to back up and and and really reevaluate, you know, like, OK, first impressions of of.

certain characteristics, sure. But then who is this person a deeper exploration? And I personally think that Nosebleeds and the Magaman the title is pretty punk rock, you know, because yeah, it's it's inconvenient to use that at this time of the when the election happened for sure. But that's what's punk rock about it. Fucking fuck you. We're doing it anyways, at least in my mind.

Brock Gibbs (40:41.696)
Yeah, that's good. I mean, I'm glad to hear that from coming from someone in the States. But yeah, because well, for me, if I'm honest, I say that I was ignorant of it. I actually thought in the back of my mind, shouldn't that work? like no matter who you are, you're going to see that and you're to think, wow, it's relevant. But I think it is scary. And most a lot of people, I'm going say most people, that's bullshit. But a lot of people are

Mike (40:49.114)
Yeah.

Mike (40:59.705)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (41:05.188)
huh.

Brock Gibbs (41:11.868)
afraid of things. It's kind of like my dad. know, my dad's of that age where there's some mild racism, you know, because he's so he is a boomer. You know, it's like, okay, and things scare him. You know, you see someone of a different color on the same side of the street coming his way, he would cross over that what the fuck are you doing? But people get afraid by appearances.

Mike (41:21.429)
Right, Yeah.

Mike (41:28.591)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (41:39.547)
Mm-hmm.

Brock Gibbs (41:39.77)
and stuff that other people show you. They assume that that's everything there is about that person. Otherwise, why would they throw that on display? Why would Guy Fieri dress the way he does? He obviously wants us to see that and that's all. But that's not. Maybe he just likes that stuff. know what I mean? The Try Guy. Maybe he's just proud. He's proud of being doing a triathlon. Most people that are looking at him and judging him can't finish a fucking triathlon. Right? So...

Mike (41:47.834)
Yeah.

Mike (41:55.013)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (42:00.337)
huh.

Mike (42:04.131)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So who are we to, you know, cast stones in that in that aspect? Well,

Brock Gibbs (42:09.534)
Yeah. Except for the one chapter of my book about Susudio, Phil Collins song. We can all judge that. That doesn't need to exist. That's horrible.

Mike (42:15.855)
Yep. Yeah.

Well, the the the way I thought about the cover and the title of your book is it it reminds me in some strange way of the Nirvana's Nevermind like album cover with the naked baby going after the dollar. Because you're right. It scares people like what the fuck is this? But the same way it draws you into it, like I got it. I got to check it out. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (42:35.836)
yeah.

Brock Gibbs (42:39.476)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brock Gibbs (42:44.233)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, what's behind this? It's got to be a reason for this, right? Yeah. Often you find out there's nothing there, but...

Mike (42:49.867)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I know that's disappointing, but we, you know, as a fan of yours, Brock and the you're writing and I can say there's something there for this and we're gonna have the link in the show notes and you know, to the book to both your books. And, you know, it's just it's a

It's been fun talking to you. I love knowing you. I love what you stand for. And it's just really fun to be able to come together like this. I appreciate you taking the time to be on our show today.

Brock Gibbs (43:30.173)
I'm glad to be here. have a lot of fun talking to you. It's a good time.

Mike (43:34.523)
Yeah, it is. And I want to make sure that everybody knows Nosebleeds and the Mag Man and other adventures about running and getting punched in the face is available where you get your books and it's it's fun. It's it's a lot of fun. And if you can't if you can't read this without cracking a smile and laughing, there's something wrong with you and you need to go to the doctor immediately. So

That being said, Brock, thank you, brother. I appreciate you. And we're to get you back on and talk about your next book when that comes out, too.

Brock Gibbs (44:13.952)
That'd be great. Thanks for having me, Mike.

Mike (44:16.443)
All right, everybody. Thank you for joining us today. And like always, if you like the show, go ahead, subscribe, tell a friend about it. If you don't like the show, that's cool, too. Let us know. Anyways, we will see you all next time.