From Age Grouper to Pro: Jess Smith's Journey

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, host Lindsay Hiken interviews her triathlon coach, Jess Smith. They discuss Jess's journey as a pro triathlete, her coaching philosophy, and the importance of nutrition and performance management in endurance sports. Jess shares insights on qualifying for pro status, the benefits of being a pro athlete, and the challenges of doping in the sport. The conversation highlights the balance between personal goals and competitive aspirations, as well as the significance of community in triathlon.

Takeaways

• Jess Smith is a pro triathlete and coach.
• Qualifying for pro status involves specific race criteria.
• Being a pro athlete offers benefits like reduced race entry fees.
• Coaching is about understanding individual athlete goals.
• Doping is a significant issue in endurance sports.
• Nutrition management is crucial for performance.
• Jess emphasizes the importance of community in triathlon.
• Athletes can improve more than they think they can.
• Personal experiences shape coaching approaches.
• The balance between weight management and performance is delicate.

Sound Bites

• "I'm a pro triathlete."
• "I do not care how fast you are."
• "I want to see how good I can be."

Keywords

triathlon, coaching, pro athlete, endurance sports, nutrition, doping, performance, training, Jess Smith, Ginger and Chocolate podcast

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Transcript

Lindsay Hiken (00:01)
Hey, folks, welcome to Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm Lindsay and my cohost, Mike cannot make it today, but I am with my own coach, my triathlon coach, Jess Smith. How's it going, Jess?

Jess Smith (00:15)
Hi, thanks for having me.

Lindsay Hiken (00:17)
Yeah, of course. I was looking at my training piece today and I was like, no, I don't want to do it. I'm tired, but I will get on the trainer as soon as we're done here. Since I'm on the call with you, it's motivating me a little bit. So tell me and everybody else a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do, that kind of thing.

Jess Smith (00:23)
Hahahaha

Good.

Yeah, so I'm Jess. am a mom of two. I live in the Des Moines, Iowa area. I used to live near Lindsay out in the Bay Area. My husband was getting a PhD at Stanford, so we lived out there for about a decade. And then after our little guy was born, our second child, we just said we got to be closer to family and maybe a little more affordable lifestyle. So we moved back to the Midwest and yeah, we really like it. I mean, we're in the thick of winter right now. We're about to get a

10 inch of snow winter storm overnight. So that should be fun.

Lindsay Hiken (01:16)
my God. So

do you swim inside then or do you assume all the time?

Jess Smith (01:22)
Yes, all the time. Yeah.

yeah. Well, so our outdoor pools are open from Memorial Day to Labor Day. And but most of the outdoor pools are just like play for fun for the kids. So Lifetime Fitness, which is like five minutes away from me, it's super lucky they have an outdoor pool. So I swam with the Des Moines Masters in downtown Des Moines and that pool is gorgeous. It's a beautiful Olympic sized indoor pool. So it's, mean,

It's nice, we have it pretty good, but it's indoors all year. And then if I want to swim outside, I do some solo swims at Lifetime in the summer just to get a little sunshine.

Lindsay Hiken (02:02)
Sunshine, okay, that's

Jess Smith (02:05)
But yeah, came,

when I came, I came back to the Bay Area just a couple of weeks ago for just a couple of days and I was in wine country, but I got to swim with Stanford Masters one morning and I was like, my God, swimming outside is the best. I've missed it so much.

Lindsay Hiken (02:20)
It is fun, although I have to say yesterday I scraped the frost off my ice off my car before I drove to Masters in the morning and I was kind of like questioning my life choices about what am I doing? Everything's frozen.

Jess Smith (02:28)
Mmm.

Well, the funny

thing is out there, nobody parks in a garage. You use your garage for other things like your gym or whatever, but here you have to park your car in the garage. So I've scraped my windshield way less in Iowa than I ever did, than I did in California, which is kind of crazy. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (02:51)
that's a good point. I never thought about that.

Yeah, because it's too cold to just leave your cars outside. Our garage currently has like eight bikes and probably about the same number of surfboards. Could not fit a car in there.

Jess Smith (02:56)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Outdoor

lifestyle storage. That's what garages are for in California.

Lindsay Hiken (03:10)
So on top of kind of where you are, where you live, that kind of thing, what else do do in life?

Jess Smith (03:20)
So I am a pro triathlete. I took my pro card at the end of 2011. So I've been doing that for a very long time. I still don't think of myself as one of the older pros in the field, but I'm definitely one of the older pros. Actually, a woman that I race with a bunch is a couple years younger than me, Haley Truro. I'm sure some of your listeners have heard of her.

Lindsay Hiken (03:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jess Smith (03:47)
And in one of her T 100 races, she got called one of the veterans of the sport. And I remember hearing that thinking like, she's not a veteran. She's younger than I am. Like she hasn't been around that long. No, we've been around for a while. So, um, yeah, I'm 43 still racing pro and we'll see, you know, we'll see how long that lasts, um, been doing it for quite a while. And then, um, I also work, I just coached triathletes. So I used to work for.

Core Sports, which is an awesome women's endurance apparel brand. But recently just kind of pulled back from working for them and just went head into coaching full time, which is, I just love it. It's my passion. you know, I kind of always thought in the back of my mind that I'd want to do that eventually. And yeah, so it's been, it's been fun. get to work with lots of different types of people in lots of different places and yeah, it's great.

Lindsay Hiken (04:38)
Mm-hmm.

So how many people, about how many people do you coach at one time?

Jess Smith (04:45)
I cap it at 25. I think I have 23 active right now with a couple who are on break, planning to restart. I, I just feel like that's, that's about the most that I want to know my athletes. Well, I want to know their data. want to be, I'm not a control freak at all, but I want to know everything they're doing. And no, I just, I want to make sure I have good relationships with my athletes. And I feel like above 25, then it becomes, I don't know, I just don't have enough.

time or space that I don't have the time or space that I would want for each individual. So I kind of prefer to be closer to 20, 22, 23 maybe. But yeah, 25 is definitely the limit.

Lindsay Hiken (05:16)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

That's a lot. I had no idea that that's how many people I mean, I just I don't I don't know what you know, what's a normal not normal. So that's that's a lot of people considering.

Jess Smith (05:31)
Yeah.

I think some people

can have more if they have less hands-on approaches to coaching or do more stock planning. There are definitely ways to expand your reach as a coach, but I really like the one-on-one model where I'm writing the plan, I'm involved in the creation of the workouts and then the conversation. So some people kind of have other people write the plan and then they may just be the one that talks to the athlete about their training, but I like to.

Lindsay Hiken (05:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (06:08)
I like to have my fingers in everything. So it limits the number of people I can work with, but I prefer it that way.

Lindsay Hiken (06:14)
Well, I appreciate it as a as someone of your coaches, because I do feel like I get personal attention and I can, you know, write all my stuff and training peaks about how I'm sore and I'm tired and I don't want to do it. I'm basically paying you to tell me what to do and then telling you why I'm not. don't want to do it.

Jess Smith (06:35)
Yeah.

You know, I have

a lot of people that do that and then somehow they'll just do it anyway. So I don't worry, you know, I don't worry about you or a lot of other people. It's like, all right, let me have the excuses. Let me have the complaining. Any of it. Just, you know, get it out and then you go do and then go do your workout anyway.

Lindsay Hiken (06:42)
Right.

Like

I woke up this morning, was like, good, I'm gonna see Jess so I can tell her why I'm not gonna get on my trainer today because everything hurts and I'm tired. And now I'm like, I guess I'll probably just get on the trainer after our call.

Jess Smith (07:05)
Yeah, but it is.

mean, that's an important point, right? I think a lot of people think that, you know, some people are that they ask why or they, you know, want to give a lot of detail and a lot of athletes who they just check the box, right? It's like, this is my training. This is what I'm doing. And it's like, no, I actually need that feedback from you because there are times, I mean, it's a balance, right? If you're training and you're pushing yourself and you're getting better, you're going to be tired. But it's a fine line between tired and go forward and

Lindsay Hiken (07:29)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (07:33)
no tired you need some rest. So we'll chat more about that you and me. To make sure that we're pushing you when you're tired but not pushing you when you're so tired.

Lindsay Hiken (07:36)
Right. goody.

Yeah, yeah, that that's okay. Yeah, I'm actually not too tired to get on the trainer. I'm just tired when the alarm went off. I was like, I just want to stay in bed. Okay, so you train you are a mom, you've got two kids, you've got a husband, you coach people. Tell me you know what, I don't know anything about

Jess Smith (07:49)
For sure.

Lindsay Hiken (08:09)
how people become pros. what you said, you're pro card in 2011. What is that? I just know when people are a pro or are not a pro, but I don't know what that entails.

Jess Smith (08:16)
Yeah.

Yeah. So there are a few different ways to qualify for, and then like lots of different categories, but I am a non-draft legal pro triathlete. So there's like draft legal, there's duathlon. So for the non-draft legal pro triathletes, there are a few different ways you can qualify. In one, the...

probably the easiest and way that most people qualify is you have to be in the top three of all the age groupers. So not just your age group, but all the age groupers. You have to be in the top three of a race that has, I think, at least $20,000 of prize money. And they do that because the races with prize money tend to be bigger races. So you can't get third at a really tiny local race that doesn't have an elite field and then get your pro card that way.

Lindsay Hiken (08:52)
Okay.

Jess Smith (09:07)
And so really any time that you do that or, you know, I haven't looked recently, but I think it was if you were one of the top 10 age groupers at Kona. So you had to be top three at, you know, any event that had that much prize money. Kona, have to be top 10. Or I think it's, you can, I know you can renew your pro license when you're within 8 % of the winning pros time.

Lindsay Hiken (09:32)
Okay.

Jess Smith (09:33)
And

so that may also be a way to qualify, but that's probably one of the hardest ways to qualify. So when I did it, actually, the first time I qualified was at Pat Grove Olympic because they had a pro field. They had a draft legal pro field, but it still counted. And I won, I was the top age grouper. So technically I qualified there. I didn't take my pro card. I started working with the coach, Matt Dixon.

And his philosophy was kind of like, well, just because you qualify to get your pro card doesn't mean you should automatically take it. need, and I didn't have that much race experience. I mean, I think he was spot on for me that you need, you need more racing as an age grouper. You need to be able to race bigger events, know, Ironman branded events and win as an age grouper before, you know, you take that leap. Cause it's a, it's a very different race. It's the same course on the same day, but it's, it's a very different race. So.

Lindsay Hiken (10:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sure.

Jess Smith (10:30)
Um, in 2011, I was the, won St. George. So I was the top age group at St. George. And then I did, um, 70.3 worlds and I was the top age group there. Um, so after, after I was the top age group or 70.3 worlds and I was like, all right, you can, I think it's, I think you can take your pro card. So, um, yeah, so I did that in 2011 and then, uh, Arizona at 2011 was my first pro race. I would be in Arizona. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (10:57)
Okay. Yeah,

yeah, I remember that because I remember that a lot of the teammates, our teammates were going to that, that race that year. In fact, I was registered for 2011, Arizona Ironman. And I I did not have a coach, you know, I just was going along with the team, which

Jess Smith (11:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (11:22)
and doing stuff on my own, which our team is great, but they do a lot of really long stuff that has nothing to do with a race that you're doing.

Jess Smith (11:29)
Yeah, yeah, it's such great training,

but it's not super focused on any specific goals a lot of the time. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (11:36)
Yeah,

yeah. So I did a really long bike ride, which was fine. And then the next day, this super long run that was not necessary for me. And I pulled something like something happened with my so as and so I couldn't even walk the day that the race showed up. I wasn't even able to really walk without pain. And I was like, OK, well.

Jess Smith (11:55)
no.

Lindsay Hiken (12:00)
I mean, so I knew like that week I was leading up to that I wasn't going to race because I was like hobbling around and I was like, dang, dang it. But I didn't you know, I didn't know any better at the time. I was like, I'm just going to I guess I'm doing an Iron Man. So let me run 20 miles like the week before the race on trails and just see what happens. And then I was like, this is this is not good.

Jess Smith (12:06)
Yeah.

Yep.

What could go wrong? Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (12:29)
Okay, so that's how you get your pro card. That's interesting. I had no idea that you could end up qualifying and not take it or qualifying and not being ready because you just happen to beat everybody at a race that huh, okay, I don't have to worry about that.

Jess Smith (12:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I think, I mean, I think

they're, you know, I wouldn't, you know, I think a lot of people, if they qualify, they just take it, which, you know, I like good, go for it. You know, I think it kind of depends on your ultimate goals and what you're doing. And if you have a coach and you know what you're thinking, but I think, you know, some people wait, some people qualify, you know, one of our hardcore coaching coaches, Lisa Holt, qualified for her pro card, but just didn't think that that was for her.

Lindsay Hiken (12:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Jess Smith (13:10)
She didn't really want to race in the professional level, at least not yet. So I mean, she's 36, so she's got, she's seven years younger than me, so she's got some time, but yeah, she could be racing as a pro if she wanted. But you know, I think a lot of people take it right away. Some people don't take it at all. you know, some people just wait.

Lindsay Hiken (13:32)
So obviously the level at which you're performing is different if you're a pro, obviously, but is the main thing that you can earn, you can win money. Is that the main?

Jess Smith (13:44)
Yeah, I think the draws for me, because actually after I had Hannah, my daughter, I went back to racing pro and I had somebody ask me like, well, why? Why would you go back to racing pro? I mean, fair question. I didn't have great results before Hannah was born. I had some really good ones right before I got pregnant with her. But then, yeah, he was kind of like, well, why would you go back to racing pro? And part of me was like, because I can, you know?

Lindsay Hiken (14:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (14:14)
But the other part was like, well, a couple things. One, the race entries are cheaper, right? So like, know, somebody wanting to race an Ironman right now, think sometimes they're like $750, maybe. I don't even know what the, and then almost like 300 or 400, maybe 500 now for 70.3. And that's not, that used to be like the, you know, the...

Lindsay Hiken (14:27)
Yeah, at least.

Jess Smith (14:40)
the charity slots, right? But now it's so expensive. So for Ironman, it's actually one of the most expensive ways to race, but they cap us at $1,200. So if I just want to do one Ironman as a pro, it's $500. If I want to do two Ironmans, it's a thousand, but I never pay more than 1,200. So I could race five Ironmans in a year and it's capped at 1,200. Yeah, so that's nice. it ends up being a lot, you can race more and it's not, you know, it's,

Lindsay Hiken (14:59)
Hmm.

Wow, okay.

Jess Smith (15:10)
It's not as expensive. You don't have to pay extra for championship slots. So all those people that are like, I got a slot to Kona. here's $1,600 for the pros. They don't have to do that. So that's big. And then I think, you know, a lot of other race series will actually give free entry. So, you know, Iron Man doesn't, but, you know, I think challenge is cheaper or free. And there have been some other race series that offer prize money and they'll either give

Lindsay Hiken (15:21)
Like, wow.

Mm-hmm. okay.

Jess Smith (15:40)
really big discounts to elites registering or they'll let them race for free, which is really nice. And then at Ironman events, they have pro porta potties. And I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is amazing. I mean, they always have at least two. Indian Wells was rough because there were 30 women and 70 men and they only gave us two porta potties and it was still better than the age groupers got. But I was thinking, okay, this is...

Lindsay Hiken (15:42)
Mm-hmm.

my gosh.

course.

Jess Smith (16:10)
This is not enough. We had there too many men and they take way too long. And then, yeah, and then the opportunity to win money. I mean, for, you know, for the very top pros, like this is their, this is their job. Like this is their livelihood. They don't, they might do other things on the side, but for the most part, their job is to train and to race. And that's it. Obviously I'm not, you know, this doesn't pay the bills, but my hope is that with prize money, I can pay all my expenses.

Lindsay Hiken (16:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (16:39)
and then make a little money on top, right? That's kind of the goal for every year. And it's like, look, I would be doing trath on anyway, because I love it. I think I'm a lifer. I'm too old to race as a pro, I'll just race as an age groupers. So, you know, the longer I can pay for this really expensive hobby, you know, the better. So yes, and it's fun. you know, I think at some point I won't be able to beat all the age groupers, but I think that's another thing too, is that

Lindsay Hiken (16:47)
Yeah.

huh.

Right. You know.

Jess Smith (17:07)
I'm still competitive in the pro field at a lot of races. And so I'd rather line up with that group. And I may not win, but see how I can do.

Lindsay Hiken (17:15)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so just crushing a bunch of age groupers. That makes sense. Probably. Yeah.

Jess Smith (17:21)
Yeah, well, maybe not crushing, but yeah, I you know, I like

to see, you know, have those carrots in front of me. I think it's good.

Lindsay Hiken (17:31)
Mm I actually actually have a funny story about because I've been in a couple of races where there was a retired pro, you know, who was going to race in my same age group, you know, and we were just kind of so I went to Wildflower one year and I can't remember her name, but she was an Australian woman, a retired pro. That might be it. She was.

Jess Smith (17:41)
Mm-hmm.

McKelley Jones maybe?

Lindsay Hiken (17:57)
She has she was working, you know, at one of the Fender booths to like it. I don't remember doing what, but then she raised the sprint, which is what I was doing. And. Blonde and skinny, yeah, that sounds about right. Well, so like I'm standing in transition with like the group of women that are we're all in the same age group, right? We're like this was the like 45 to 49.

Jess Smith (18:07)
Tall and blonde and skinny. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (18:26)
age, you know, that's our age. And, or, yeah, and she was in this, so she was in our same age group. And we were just standing around chatting about nothing, you know, before we walked over to the swim, we're just like, just about whatever, no one's preparing in any way to race, we're just chatting, which is how we prepare. And she was like, right near us doing all these like

Jess Smith (18:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right.

Lindsay Hiken (18:52)
calisthenics and like, you know, doing like pulling like doing we were just like, what the hell, you know, and then we realized she was in our age group and we were like, okay, well, she's just gonna win and then there will be the rest of which she did, you know, I was like coming.

Jess Smith (19:06)
Well, it should make you feel better that if it

were if it was McKeeley-Jones, which I fully expect that it would be because she's out of California now. She works for she worked for ISM in the past, but she's former Olympian, former Kona champ. Like, yeah, just one of the best female triathletes of all time. You know, just line it up.

Lindsay Hiken (19:13)
you

Just that warmup routine was terrifying.

Jess Smith (19:29)
While I was laughing,

I do a local race called Try Clear Lake. It's like two hours for me. And it's like one of my favorite races of the season. And they're actually going to have a real pro field this year and like prize money, which is kind of cool. But in the past, like I've been the only pro racing. There's not even a pro category. There's just an overall, right. But I've gotten to know the race director and it's just such a fun local event. But the way that they send off the waves, because there's no elite wave. it's like men under 40.

and then men 40 and older, and then women under 40, and then women 40 and over. And the first year I did it, I was 39, but I turned 40 in the year. And so I had to race and I was like, my God, I'm with the 40 year olds. Okay, I've got to go in that corral. And I was laughing so hard because it was an Olympic, but they're like, all right ladies, 40 and over, you're up next. And I go to the line, to the swim start, and nobody is on the line. Nobody goes up.

Lindsay Hiken (20:07)
Yeah.

hahahaha

No.

Jess Smith (20:28)
to the actual line to start and I was like, ladies, come on, come on. Like, there's no one. Yeah. I was like, somebody's gotta come stand on this line with me. Come on, just, you know, let's go forward. But it's just so different, you know. Usually it's like the pro start line. People are elbowing and jockeying for position and like, and I was like, couldn't get them to stand next to me for the life of me. I'm like, come on, let's go.

Lindsay Hiken (20:34)
We're all in the back. Like we're trying to get back here.

Some of us are going to take a little.

It's like, what are you talking about? I don't think I've ever been near a line. You know, if you have to run into the, I'm just like with wherever the kind of group of people are, I just kind of stand in that general vicinity.

Jess Smith (21:02)
You

Yeah. the gun went off. Okay, let's go.

loved it though. was like, this is great. Nobody's stressed. Like we're just having fun. I'm like, I love this. I love this group of ladies.

Lindsay Hiken (21:17)
Did you?

This is why I

like triathlon because I'm a social person and I like community and this is what it is if you're an age group or especially if you're not someone who's elite and trying to come in and get podium, you're just trying to have a good time. It's very fun. It's really fun. It's super fun.

Jess Smith (21:39)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That will be my future for sure.

Lindsay Hiken (21:46)
Well, wait till you're in your 50s and the announcers are sending you if it's a big enough race for them to send off more waves than just 40 and over. The announcers are always just like, OK, ladies, like we're just a million years old. It's like, well, OK, you don't need to talk to us like that. We're not that old. Yeah, because we've got walkers out there like, you know.

Jess Smith (21:54)
Hehe.

my god.

Lindsay Hiken (22:10)
I see some ladies in the water warming up, getting ready to, you know, we've got like pink caps on it's like, all right, all right, all right. my God. So at some point, maybe you'll be in that group and think of me. I'm excited. I'm going to do wildflower. I don't know if I've told you for sure, but I am going to do wildflower the sprint this year. And I'm, super excited with some, some other people that you coach. We're going to, we're going to go down together and, and do it.

Jess Smith (22:21)
man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Awesome. Okay, yeah.

Yes, I love it.

Lindsay Hiken (22:40)
Yeah, super excited.

Jess Smith (22:40)
I checked in with them to see if they were going to have a pro race and they said they were working on it, but they didn't have any details yet. So was like, oh man, maybe, maybe that has to be a late add to the calendar. Cause that race is just, it's just the best. I'm so excited that it's back. I just hope it stays.

Lindsay Hiken (22:45)
Hmm.

That would be so fun.

Yeah,

I know me too. It's so popular, you know, so I feel like the right group or whatever should be able to make it stay. I don't know what what issues come up, but everyone I know loves that race or has has it on their bucket list if they haven't done it before.

Jess Smith (23:02)
I know.

Yep. I would love

to see Vine Man come back to. I mean, maybe they have to change the name, but it just kills me that that race was, had so much history and had been around for so long and then just gone.

Lindsay Hiken (23:20)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, it like

became an Iron Man and then moved to Santa Rosa, which I did, and then moved to Sacramento, which I mean, I haven't done, but I definitely have paid for the entrance fee. But I didn't get to do, you know, I didn't get to do Fine Man full. I did the half a few times. I did. Remember they had that women's half happening at the same time as the full was called Barb's race, Barb's race.

Jess Smith (23:39)
Yeah.

yeah, yeah, Barb's race. Yeah,

I forgot about that.

Lindsay Hiken (23:58)
Yeah,

I did Barb's race and then I did the full distance aqua bike because they had aqua bike too, which I loved. So I felt like that was civilized. I did the full aqua bike there a couple of times and I loved it because everyone, you know, people are going out on the on the run course and I'm like, I'm going to go home and shower and have dinner. This is a. Yeah. So the last time I did that race, it was a million degrees.

Jess Smith (24:06)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

You're right.

Lindsay Hiken (24:27)
did the half and it was one of those like, I mean, it was always hot there, but it was extra hot and something happened on the run. I don't even know what and I, I, something with my hip flexor. So I had to walk like probably two thirds of it. I just wanted to finish though. You know, I didn't want to like just come off the course. So I just walked it, but I remember being like, cause just being out there and it was a hundred degrees.

Jess Smith (24:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, it's so hot. Yeah.

It's amazing how it can be so cool and overcast to start. And they're just boiling by the time you get to the run. And if you got, you know, if you got a later wave, you got screwed. When I raced there as a pro, oh my God, coming in, because, you know, the bike and the run finish along the same road. And so, you know, we're finishing the run and I'm just dying because we've already gone through the 13 miles in the heat.

Lindsay Hiken (24:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

All right.

Jess Smith (25:20)
And to see people still coming in on the bike, I'm just like, I can't believe they have to go out and run right now. How are they going to do it? How are they going to make it happen? And they're like, well, we haven't run yet, but yeah, just thinking like, thank God I'm done. I feel so bad for those people that are still out there.

Lindsay Hiken (25:37)
That was my first half ever. And Tim Sheeper at the end said, you know, he just made a comment that I was really fresh when I came in because I was so afraid of not being able to finish that I didn't really push myself too hard. And then mile 12, I was like, oh, and I just picked the pace up like at the very, Tim was like, good job.

Jess Smith (25:51)
Yeah.

You

Lindsay Hiken (26:03)
Probably could have done a little bit more because you look like you never even did a race. I was all fresh and.

Jess Smith (26:10)
Meanwhile, people are like collapsing across the finish line.

Lindsay Hiken (26:13)
Yeah,

much like zero sweat on me. So but I love that race. I wish it would come back to they have sort of like an Olympic that's happening up in that area. So you swim in that that. But yeah, maybe someday someone will do it. Someone will do it. So about coaching, I know you've got kind of a variety of people that you coach. I I had a coach briefly.

Jess Smith (26:25)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (26:41)
who pretty much all of his coaches, very nice guy, but they were all pretty much elite age groupers. So really maybe trying to get their pro card or at least qualifying for Kona, things like that, all of them, and then me. And he had a hard time understanding why I didn't care that I didn't have like a power meter on my bike. I didn't really, you I'm like, well, you can see my heart.

Jess Smith (26:48)
Mm.

Lindsay Hiken (27:09)
great because my watch otherwise that I don't what to tell you. can just tell you my perceived effort kind of thing. although he was a nice guy, it was hard for me to work with because he could not understand why I was not in the same mental space as someone who's really trying to qualify for Kona and has the ability to qualify for Kona. But I know you have those same athletes, but you seem to have like, I don't know, maybe I'm the only one. I don't know.

Jess Smith (27:25)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (27:38)
Who's not one of those athletes?

Jess Smith (27:40)
Well, you're

a fantastic athlete, so you should not sell yourself short. But no, have athletes that run the gamut. And I actually had someone reach out once, and she asked about coaching. And she was like, well, I just wasn't sure you'd want to work with me. And I asked her why. And she was like, well, because I'm not fast. And she was trying to finish a 70.3 and just meet the cutoff. And I'm like, I do not care.

how fast you are, what I care about is if you have goals that you're excited about. Because that's my favorite part, right? Like I start to dream and I start to get invested in people's goals. And I've had people before that the people I struggle with are people who have potential or, you know, have goals, but then they're just either unwilling or for whatever reason, like just can't, just can't make themselves like take those steps towards the goal. And that's hard because if somebody tells me they have a goal,

there's something that they're working towards, I get really excited about it and I get invested. And then I'm like, no, we're making this happen. And so then if it doesn't work out, I'm just as disappointed too. And so that's why I love when people just have, they're excited about what they're doing. And it doesn't matter if I have a lot of really elite age groupers, I have people that are literally just trying to finish their first 70.3.

Lindsay Hiken (28:41)
Yeah.

Jess Smith (29:02)
or they've tried a few times to make the Ironman cut off and haven't been successful, and they're trying to do that. And so, I think there are coaches out there who really wanna coach the top, right? Because then that's how you get your name out there, and then you show that you're the coach of the elites or whatever. And I wanna be the coach of people who love triathlon. And I mean, I remember, like I race pro now, but my first Ironman, I couldn't...

Lindsay Hiken (29:24)
Yeah.

Jess Smith (29:31)
I couldn't, I had a bento box and so I could eat out of my bento box, but I couldn't pull things out of my pocket to eat. So like at special needs, I put my feet down on the ground and I ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And then I just carried on my way. And you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't know anything. I had a road bike with aero bars and no aero helmet, you know, just not none of like the gear. didn't use a heart rate monitor. I would just, and I made up my own training. didn't have a coach.

Lindsay Hiken (29:43)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (30:00)
I would just be like, okay, well I have 45 minutes to run over lunch, so I'm gonna go run for 45 minutes. And I did like spin classes during the week for, that was my bike training, you know? And so I remember, even though that was 20 years ago, I remember it vividly. And I remember kind of every step of the way and having help from all the people on Team Sheeper. think Mike Osmond was like, whoa, what are you riding on? What is this?

Lindsay Hiken (30:08)
Yeah.

Jess Smith (30:28)
What is this gear set up? You know, and he and Ian are like, okay, we're changing this. We're overhauling this for you. and so, yeah, I just remember what it was like to just be so new in the sport and not have any idea what I was doing. And then every kind of step along the way, because I wasn't an overnight sensation. It wasn't like I did my first triathlon and it was like, my God, take your pro card right now. You know, it was a few years of training and getting better and learning and changing gear and getting a better bike and all of those things before.

Lindsay Hiken (30:50)
you

Jess Smith (30:58)
I really kind of showed promise. And so yeah, that had just allowed me to like, I don't know, really experience every phase of the sport from like slow to pro, right? And so I remember each phase and I feel like that allows me to work with people that are in each of those phases and understand where they are and try to meet them there because everybody can.

Lindsay Hiken (31:08)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (31:25)
I think everybody can be better than they think, right? And so it's like, well, I'll never be this. And it's like, well, don't worry about that. Let's talk about where you are now and where would you like to go. And then let's set a plan to get there. And then when you get there, where else do you wanna go?

Lindsay Hiken (31:38)
Yeah.

That makes sense.

Right, right. That makes sense. That makes sense. You did say something which I found interesting, which is you're not supposed to put both your feet down and special needs because I straight got off my bike, put my bike down and ate some food and like rummage through my bag and they were standing there trying to help me and I'm like, I'm good. I got my little bag.

Jess Smith (31:58)
Ha ha ha!

100 %

Just meaning that like, you know, now as a pro, don't, now, I mean, some pros use special needs. I don't even use special needs because I don't want to take the time. Like I just want to plow right through, right? And so it's just, that's where, you know, that's how my life has changed. It's like, I've been, you know, yeah, where you're like, no, no, no, I have to take these stops. And then, you know, it's like, I'm eating cookies at an aid station because I have no real nutrition plan. Like I didn't, I mean, and honestly, even when I had a coach.

Lindsay Hiken (32:23)
Yeah, yeah.

Jess Smith (32:37)
I didn't have like a detailed race plan of like where I was supposed to ride power wise or heart rate wise or what I was going to eat and when. Like I would just kind of wing it sort of. And then it wasn't until really I started working with my coaching trio of Tim Sheeper, Ian Hersey and Mike Osmond that like it was like, no, no, no, we have to dial this in. We have to like create a real plan. And so that I feel like that's such an important part with my athletes.

Lindsay Hiken (32:40)
Right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Jess Smith (33:06)
Cause there's so many people that train and train and train and they have like this detailed training and then they go into the race and they just race and you're like, well, hold on. Where are you going to, where are you going to keep your heart rate? Well, I don't know. Well, what are you going to eat on the bike? I don't know. I'm just going to eat these things, you know, and it's like, no, you should have, you should have a plan for how you're going to execute. So then when I go and race, it's, it almost feels like until the last, maybe five or 10 K of the run.

Lindsay Hiken (33:11)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jess Smith (33:35)
I'm not racing until then I'm executing and then I'm racing at the very end.

Lindsay Hiken (33:41)
that's an interesting way to look at it. I've never paid any attention to my heart rate or any other. Just so you know, any other metric like that when I'm racing, because I'm like, I One thing I have done, I haven't really had a plan about when I would eat either. But the way that I got through Iron Man and I didn't have any.

Jess Smith (33:51)
That's what I'm here for. Yep.

Lindsay Hiken (34:07)
any stomach issues at all, which I know most of my teammates had some stomachs, something somewhere. I just had really clean food that and I had enough of it that I could eat. Like I had like a little like hummus wrap that had some protein in it and it had, you know, and so I was fine.

Jess Smith (34:17)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (34:27)
in that my food that I had, had enough and I had good clean food because my body doesn't really care for all the goose and things like that. And so I had enough of that and I I just kind of ate. I thought I should eat kind of like regularly. So that's what I did. I mean, that's not a plan. It worked because I was not going very fast and I could kind of I could kind of go, well, an hour's passed. Maybe I should eat something. And that's what I did.

Jess Smith (34:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (34:56)
And then at the very end, you've probably never been out there when it gets dark, but it gets dark and cold. And then they bring out like chicken broth, which they put that on the. Isn't that the best I love? I was so happy to see that chicken broth. my God. So that was.

Jess Smith (35:06)
it's the best.

So I've never had chicken broth

during the race, but after Ironman Texas in 2022, I got pulled into doping control. And amazingly, the only time I've ever been drug tested in my entire pro career. I've been tested one time. That's story for another day. yeah, I got pulled in and you know, it's after an Ironman and they make you stay in there until you have to pee. And I'm like, I'm never gonna have to pee.

And then I was like, I'm gonna need to eat something or I'm gonna start going downhill fast. Because they take you into this separate area. don't go to athlete food. And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm gonna need something here. I started getting dizzy. And so they're like, well, we can get you some chicken broth and then we can get you some food. And I probably had five cups of chicken broth. I've never recovered so well from an Ironman in my entire life. So highly recommend downing as much chicken broth as you can. Because it's the liquid, it's the sodium.

Lindsay Hiken (36:06)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (36:09)
Yeah, makes you feel good. And then, yeah, was, you know, I was, I was the last one into doping control and the first one out because I downed my chicken broth. Yeah. So, yep. Yep. I'm like, okay, I got to pee. And when I came back, the guy's like, well, you didn't have to fill it to the top.

Lindsay Hiken (36:11)
It was amazing.

Really? Chicken broth? You're like, okay, I can pee now.

Well, here you go.

Jess Smith (36:29)
I like, well,

I knew, I knew, cause one of the other pros had tried and she didn't have enough. Like you have to come, you have to get over the line. So she had, and I was like, oh, I cannot like, because then you've wasted what was ready. So you have to start from scratch. And I'm like, I can't go into doping control or I can't go into pee unless I know that cup is, I'm going to hit the line.

Lindsay Hiken (36:37)
I

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

You're like, have goals here. Metrics, got to do. Is this an arbitrary thing they do? Or do they do it when they think you've performed in a way that might indicate that you were doping?

Jess Smith (37:07)
So that year, first and second were pulled, and then I was sixth. So they said I was a random pull. So first and second was definitely going to get pulled no matter what, and then sixth was random. But I've been third at an Ironman twice, and I've gotten second once, and I did not get drug tested at any of those events, which is kind of crazy.

Lindsay Hiken (37:17)
Okay.

That is crazy. would assume like, I don't know. I just assumed like if you got a certain number, you would. Yeah.

Jess Smith (37:32)
So like I got second in Wisconsin in 2022 and there was nobody got tested that year so that even the winner didn't get tested. And

I don't know if it was maybe because Wisconsin was like not as competitive as some of the other races that maybe they just decided not to have doping control there. I don't know, but a lot of pros are in like a test. Like if you rank highly enough, like if you're in the top, I don't know, 30 to 50, you're probably in the testing pool where you have to.

confirm your whereabouts and they can drug test you at any time. I'm not in the testing pool. yeah, I mean, at any point I could get tested at a race, but it's not like they're gonna show up to my house. I mean, the problem is testing is really expensive, but I mean, have been a a couple of people have been busted recently. And so I would love to see, and I think it's happening more than we think. And so I would love to see more.

Lindsay Hiken (38:08)
That's nice.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (38:30)
I would love to see increased testing.

Lindsay Hiken (38:33)
Yeah.

Well, because now you can, I know even sometimes with, you know, non pro like with amateur athletes, you'll see amateur endurance athletes doping for various reasons. My, my, my partner, Josh, raced road bikes for a long time. And he, you know, he was competing with people who were doping and they're not

Jess Smith (38:48)
yeah!

Lindsay Hiken (39:01)
pros. It's like, what do you do? They're just crazy. It's like, why would you? I don't know why. I mean, I guess to win, but you got to know if you're doping and you're racing amateur, like what I don't even understand what the point like, what is the point? I don't I don't

Jess Smith (39:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Ehh

Well, to me,

it's, and again, like I guess when you're a pro and you want to win and make money and all that, I mean, there are definitely more incentives, but I've always thought of sport as like a challenge for me, right? Like I want to see how good I can be. mean, yeah, it's great if I can race well and be competitive and win prize money and pay for my trip or whatever, but it's just like, how, do you get the same satisfaction out of racing if you're cheating?

Lindsay Hiken (39:26)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (39:47)
I don't know, I've never understood that. But yeah, I actually think the most rampant doping is happening in men's age group endurance sports 50 plus. Because you can just say you have low T and get prescribed testosterone. Not that I shouldn't give your listeners the easy way, yeah. Doping's super easy. It's not that hard.

Lindsay Hiken (39:54)
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's about right.

Yep.

Folks, you can do this if you'd like to.

And there's a lot of online sources for drugs that I know for like GLP ones and things like that. You can get online compounders and things like that. And so a lot of the compounders that will sell GLP ones also can.

compound things that are probably not, probably wouldn't pass the test if you, you know, they can get you HGH and things like that, which is crazy. I'm actually on, think, well, I talked about it on.

Jess Smith (40:36)
Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (40:47)
one of the earlier podcasts since Mike and I came back, but I take a GLP one to lose some weight and belly fat because I have a lot of visceral fat around my organs around my stomach and it's causing me to have type two to be pre diabetic and I'm really close to the line. And, and so I qualified for it. And, know, for me, I'm not

I'm not taking it in the way that people take. I don't take ozempic. I take terzapotite, but which is why I know you can get other things from the compounders because they're like, here's a list of all the things like I'm like, Josh, should I take human growth hormones so I can go race at Iron Man, California in the 55 to 59 age group? But.

Jess Smith (41:22)
Yeah.

haha

Like all

of a sudden your numbers are looking crazy good. What is happening? I'm the best coach ever.

Lindsay Hiken (41:42)
You

It's an interesting little journey I've been on because I have dropped some weight, which has helped my just it's helped me feel better when I'm working out because I gained I gained weight during menopause. It just it didn't matter. I didn't change anything I was doing. And then I just gained weight. So then I did change. I was doing like eight less and did, you know, and it still was there. And this is the first time since going through that.

Jess Smith (41:59)
Mm, yep.

Lindsay Hiken (42:16)
because I started that menopausal process, like perimenopause, like around your age. And then I had early menopause. So when I did Iron Man Santa Rosa in 2019, was already in, like that year I gained weight training for that Iron Man, which was like, you've got to, I mean, come on, you've got to be freaking kidding me. And I was eating a vegan diet at the same time. So I wasn't even getting enough protein and I was,

Jess Smith (42:22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Yeah

Lindsay Hiken (42:45)
And I still was, you gaining weight. So and then I became pre-diabetic and my doctor was like, well, you're pretty healthy. And they do this thing where, you know, I'm sure you've experienced this as an athlete. They do it relative to other their other patients. Like you're one of the healthiest patients I have. I don't know why you're pre-diabetic. And it's like, it doesn't matter what these other people are doing that are sitting on the couch. Like it has nothing to do with me. So she had no she had no real advice. She's like, you're

Jess Smith (43:05)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (43:14)
you out of all my patients, you're you already eat healthy and exercise, which is what I would tell them to do. So her sentence just trailed off. She literally was like, so. And I'm like, OK, thanks for the medical advice. But. But the the GOP one. They take I take it once a week and the side effects for me are pretty minimal, but.

Jess Smith (43:26)
Ha ha ha!

Lindsay Hiken (43:43)
I get tired the day after so like yesterday I was super tired. And then the other thing that's interesting and you and I can talk about this more individually is that it suppresses your appetite a little bit and ozempic makes it so you can't eat more. I mean you feel horrible. This you you can't binge out on food but you can eat without feeling really gross which is helpful. But you're just not as hungry so like

Jess Smith (43:45)
Eh.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (44:11)
When I started taking it, I went to do the just the Marin metric century. And I didn't eat anything until I was like, so I didn't even realize like I ate like a little cup of yogurt for breakfast. And then I drove up there and then I rode and like mile like 40, I suddenly just I like I wasn't hungry, was didn't even think about food. And then all of a sudden I started seeing stars and I could not get enough in at one time. I couldn't.

Jess Smith (44:20)
Yuck.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (44:41)
eat my way out of the hole that I dug. So this is the one side.

Jess Smith (44:41)
Yeah.

feel like that would be

such a great podcast actually just because there's not going to be a ton. I mean, there's just never there's never good information on like medical treatments and interventions, pregnancy counseling for endurance athletes. Right. There's just not that much information. So to talk with endurance athletes who are doing that and how how you manage that, but also knowing that you have to fuel your training and that you

Lindsay Hiken (44:58)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (45:12)
Because if you don't eat, then you sabotage your recovery, you sabotage your training, don't build the strength that you want to build. So it's such a delicate balance to combine the two.

Lindsay Hiken (45:20)
Mm hmm. Totally, totally.

Because the bump I got on my performance briefly when I dropped weight, that initial extra weight that I had gained came off, or most of it, let's say, not all of it. There was a bump in my performance, at least on the bike, because I was just lighter. Mm-hmm. Yep. Like, I'm 15 pounds lighter. That made a difference, right? But that.

Jess Smith (45:37)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, climbing, running for sure, yep.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (45:52)
that goes away into the, I mean, in terms of like improved performance, that was that it was the improvement. And then it just, that's it. It doesn't keep improving because you've already lost the weight and that was it. And so, so the, the getting the food down is the other piece of it, I think, cause I, the, one of the things with the, the tersepid that I'm on, it's got like,

Jess Smith (46:01)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (46:16)
two receptors that it hits. instead of just like a Zempig just makes you feel like food's gross, you can't eat it. This one hits this receptor that makes your, they call it food noise, where your mind's like, eat, eat, eat. I want cookies, I want the, it actually hits a receptor that makes that stop. And so you don't think about food all the time. And.

Jess Smith (46:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

wow.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (46:41)
That's great in terms of just like sitting at your desk. It's not like, it's three o'clock. Let me go shove whatever I can get at my office kitchen, you know. So that's good for that. at the same time, I will be working out and I won't think of food because of this thing that's hitting this receptor. I just won't even think about it. I only think about it when I bonk now, but I'm already bonked. It's already happened, you know.

Jess Smith (46:48)
Right?

Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, once you pass,

once you cross a line, it's so, it's not impossible to come back, but then if you're not able, like if the medication doesn't allow you to get the number of calories that you need. like people not on the GOP ones, if you think you, like you bonked, you can get it back, but you have to like, you just have to shove the calories and sugar and whatever in your face to make it happen. But yeah, if you're not, if it like takes away the physical ability to do that, then yeah, it's kind of like.

Lindsay Hiken (47:23)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jess Smith (47:30)
Yeah, you just can't go over the edge because you'll never come back.

Lindsay Hiken (47:32)
Right.

That's exactly right. And they actually had to put me in the van at the Metrix because I couldn't get it back. I kept trying to get back on my bike and I would see stars and I at one point was like wobbling around and I was trying to eat and I'm like, I in the van just rolled up and they were like, let's why don't you get in the van? We're just gonna yeah, I was like, that would be great. Thank you.

Jess Smith (47:40)
Yeah.

We're just gonna drive you back.

Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (48:02)
But yeah, so this is, and I actually am planning to have a nurse practitioner on here who has a lot of endurance athletes and she is someone who compounds the GLP ones for people and other things. So we'll see what she says. But yeah, with you, we will work on my food because I've never had, like I said, I've never had a timed out plan anyway and now I'm kind of forced to go on. So yeah.

Jess Smith (48:21)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

A watch beep is a good reminder too for those people. Because you know when you race, things don't sound good, you don't want to eat. so I'll do mileage or set my watch to beep at me or just know, okay, every 15 minutes I got to eat something. And sometimes it's a struggle. And that's actually made Ironman bike rides go really fast because I'm like, okay, I have to eat these two blocks every five miles. And I'm like, God, another five miles already?

Lindsay Hiken (48:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Which is amazing. Anything I can do to get mentally where I'm like getting through the thing. That's awesome. Well, we're at about time. Anything else you want to say or bring up? All right. All right. We did it.

Jess Smith (48:54)
Because I don't want to eat like these miles are flying by because I don't want to this blocks

Right. I was like, this has never happened to me before.

No, think, yeah,

it's been fun.

Lindsay Hiken (49:19)
Yes, it's been really fun. appreciate it. I am grateful to be working with you personally. will listeners, I'm going to put Jess's information in the show notes. So if you want to reach out to her, although she sounds like she's pretty full at the moment, but you can always reach out.

Jess Smith (49:33)
I'm full, we

have a couple, you know, things happen and people take breaks and, you know, so every once in while an opening will pop up. But we have three other amazing female coaches, two really elite triathletes who could be professionals and another pro, all women, coaching all, you know, all abilities and levels. So even if I don't have room, one of them might. yeah, we can find you. Yes, men, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (49:58)
Yeah. And they coach men and women, by the way, just so you know.

Jess Smith (50:03)
It's all women

Lindsay Hiken (50:03)
Yeah.

Jess Smith (50:04)
coaches, but yeah, we coach anyone and everyone.

Lindsay Hiken (50:06)
Yeah, that's awesome. All right, Jess, thank you so much for coming on the show. And you can hold on a second, but I'm going to say bye to the audience. Sometimes I have people I say, bye. And they just hang up. OK, listeners, thank you so much for listening. And if you can like and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast, that would be super helpful. It helps us get noticed. And all right. See you next week.

Jess Smith (50:15)
Okay.

Yeah.