Steve Keesal: Fitness as a Spiritual Practice

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, host Lindsay Hiken speaks with Steve Keesal, a military veteran and financial advisor. Steve shares his journey from being an airborne ranger to navigating life after the military, including his struggles with alcohol and the lessons he learned about accountability, personal growth, and perspective. The conversation delves into the rigorous training of the military, the importance of sobriety, and how experiences shape one's approach to life and decision-making. In this conversation, Lindsay Hiken and Steve Keesal explore the significance of having a supportive network, the value of community service, and the importance of physical fitness in maintaining spiritual health. They discuss how helping others can lead to personal growth and accountability, and they share insights on creating a better generation through mentorship and involvement in community organizations. The conversation also touches on embracing new challenges, such as learning to handle firearms responsibly, and the transformative power of perspective in addressing life's difficulties.

Takeaways

• Steve Keesal served as an airborne ranger and is a veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
• Military training instilled a sense of accountability and resilience in Steve.
• Sobriety has been a significant part of Steve's personal growth journey.
• The amends process in sobriety fosters humility and accountability.
• Perspective is crucial in navigating life's challenges and decisions.
• Steve emphasizes the importance of being present and mindful in daily life.
• The military's rigorous training prepared Steve for the challenges of life.
• Steve believes that personal experiences, even painful ones, contribute to strength.
• Effective decision-making involves a process of fantasy, vision, and execution.
• Connecting with a higher power can provide strength and guidance. Having a sounding board is crucial for personal growth.
• It's important to have people in your life to bounce ideas off of.
• Learning from others is one of the best parts of life.
• Helping others can remind us of our true values.
• Community service is a way to create a better generation.
• Physical fitness contributes to spiritual health.
• Urban hiking can be a fun way to stay active.
• Understanding the power we wield is essential for accountability.
• Letting go of preconceived notions can lead to new experiences.
• Engaging in community organizations can be fulfilling.

Keywords

military, sobriety, personal growth, accountability, perspective, decision-making, financial advisor, mental health, spiritual health, resilience, sounding boards, community service, mentorship, physical fitness, personal growth, spiritual health, veterans support, accountability, life lessons, personal development

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Transcript

Lindsay Hiken (00:01.696)
Welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I am your co-host Lindsay and I'm flying solo today. had a little, you know, kid emergency so he wasn't able to make the recording. But I'm here with our guest, Steve Kiesel. I'm excited to talk to him about all manner of things. Hi Steve, how's it going?

Steve Keesal (00:20.142)
Absolutely excellent. Thank you for having me.

Lindsay Hiken (00:22.952)
Yeah, of course, of course. We're just going to jump right in. Usually Mike and I do a little bit of small talk, but let's see. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, about your background, just about your history. I know that you were in the military. Tell us a little bit about that and kind of what you do today.

Steve Keesal (00:43.887)
Excellent. So I was an airborne ranger and I was actually in the 75th Ranger Regiment and I am an Afghan and Iraq vet from the early 2000s. I once to Afghanistan and once to Iraq with those guys.

Lindsay Hiken (01:04.906)
Wow. So just so we can clarify, because I'm not, I don't know anything. If you're a ranger, then you're in the army. Yes, please.

Steve Keesal (01:13.741)
Okay. So, all the, I'll give you the Royale if you're, if we have time for it and you have to interrupt me because I'm a guy who can talk too much, Lindsay. Okay. Good. So, so when I joined the army, I went to infantry basic training in Fort Benning and that in and of itself was a difficult thing for me or I think for anyone.

Lindsay Hiken (01:24.882)
No, no, this is a podcast. It's all we do is talk. You're good.

Steve Keesal (01:42.957)
because there's, you know, obviously you're kind of, it's kind of getting into the institution of the army, but there's also a lot as far as exercise is concerned, as far as getting in shape. And I was not a guy who was in great shape when I did that. I knew what I wanted. I wanted to be a commando. I wanted to do it, but I didn't know all that it entailed. I didn't know that I was going to have to become an incredible, like professional sports style in shape guy.

which I never was. I was like the captain of the football team in high school and so on and so forth, but I was never an athlete until I joined the Army. So I joined the Army and you go to infantry basic training, which is kind of separate from other, I know you guys are into working out and extreme sports and that kind of stuff. So this is kind of, as well as mental health.

Lindsay Hiken (02:13.725)
You

Lindsay Hiken (02:21.929)
okay.

Lindsay Hiken (02:30.218)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (02:35.472)
and spiritual strength and so on and so forth. So think that this kind of hits the whole gamut. So infantry basic training, you go 14 or 16 weeks straight through because you do basic training, which the whole army does, and then you do advanced individual training with the St. Real sergeants.

Lindsay Hiken (02:57.238)
okay.

Steve Keesal (02:58.928)
And so that was a difficult thing and a hardcore thing and a beautiful thing. I would say that that was the first time in my life that an institution hadn't let me down because it was hardcore and intense and just the way I had imagined it in movies. Right. So that

Lindsay Hiken (03:17.8)
So it is just the way you imagine it. Because I've seen movies and I'm like, that seems very challenging the way that the basic training is with the drill sergeants and stuff.

Steve Keesal (03:29.105)
It was beautiful that way in how hardcore it was and how, you know, unaccepting of weakness and how it was just something where, you know, people had to be tough and you just don't see that, you You see everywhere where there's, you know, excuses and so on and so forth. This wasn't that place.

Lindsay Hiken (03:32.299)
Hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (03:45.716)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (03:54.006)
huh. Were you, were you, did you find some, you know, toughness or were you able to dig down just out of necessity that you didn't know was there? Were you tapping into things that you didn't previously know you had?

Steve Keesal (04:09.361)
Maybe not yet, but this is just the tip of the iceberg because when I graduated from basic training, I had what they call an option 40 contract, which means that you can go straight through basic training, straight through airborne school. And if you pass basic training and if you graduate airborne school, then you can get a shot at joining the Ranger Regiment. So airborne school was three weeks of absolute pleasure.

Lindsay Hiken (04:12.158)
Mm-hmm. Okay, okay.

Steve Keesal (04:39.441)
because I could drink at night, I could hang out with my friends, it was less regimented, and it was kind of like blowing off steam after infantry basic training. I think a lot of the people who were in airborne school, it was a very difficult thing for them to go through. It had a really high washout rate, like maybe a third of the people didn't graduate, and it was something that...

Lindsay Hiken (04:41.814)
You

Steve Keesal (05:07.346)
maybe scares a lot of people and that kind of stuff. But I thought it was just kind of a spiritual uplifter after infantry basic training. And I was already someone who was now running all the time, running three to five miles every day and then running everywhere I went, doing a thousand pushups in a day, that kind of thing. was an extremely physical thing. And so everything in the army that you do,

Lindsay Hiken (05:27.158)
Hmm.

Steve Keesal (05:35.054)
involves doing 25 push-ups at one for the Airborne Ranger in the sky. know, every time that something gets screwed up or someone wants to talk to you, they talk to you while you're doing push-ups. That's just kind of the way it is. So then at the end of this three weeks of Airborne School, we went on to RIP. It's now called RASP. The Army has changed it a little bit, but it was called the Ranger Indoctrination Process. And we started out with about

Lindsay Hiken (05:38.117)
You

Steve Keesal (06:04.626)
let's say 350 guys for a physical fitness test at about 430 in the morning. And then 100 people passed that test and went to the first formation, which was, know, so.

Lindsay Hiken (06:19.766)
So you're saying that the other 200 and something, that was it, then they were just done at that point?

Steve Keesal (06:26.566)
that they didn't meet the standard and they were gone. then Lindsay, it was beautiful. They would walk up to people in this first formation where there were a hundred people and they would grab people and say, get the out of here. And who knows that guy might have been the greatest guy ever. We'll never know. But and I don't know what they were looking for. I think it's probably intensity, but

Lindsay Hiken (06:30.432)
Wow, that was a short.

Lindsay Hiken (06:43.286)
Lindsay Hiken (06:49.952)
Right.

Steve Keesal (06:56.273)
They wanted very intense people and they found them. So at the end of that formation, and this is 20 minutes, there were 88 guys to start the class. And we started that class and three weeks later, 18 of us graduated and a lot of great people quit. And it was as hardcore as you can imagine. Someone would get off a truck that they had put them on because they had

Lindsay Hiken (07:01.599)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (07:08.95)
Wow.

Lindsay Hiken (07:14.816)
Holy moly.

Steve Keesal (07:26.525)
fallen out or falling behind in a road march and they would jump off a truck with their rucksack and fall on the ground due to some sort of heat exhaustion. And as they were trying to get up, of the RIP cadre would walk up behind them and kick them in the back, back onto the ground. So yeah, this is as mean as seen as you can imagine. And they, these guys say, hey, know, mothers,

Lindsay Hiken (07:47.166)
my God.

Steve Keesal (07:56.221)
quit sending us your weak offspring. So I always think I'm the biggest wimp who ever made it through that process.

Lindsay Hiken (08:05.926)
my, well, I mean, I feel like I'm traumatized just listening to it. So, you know, I'm definitely weak.

Steve Keesal (08:11.572)
Well, it was only about, you you have to really want to do things and you have to, your reputation is a triathlete procedure by the way, we all know better. anyway, so we go to the first Ranger Battalion and 11 of the 18 of us went to the first Ranger Battalion and I got assigned to

Lindsay Hiken (08:17.706)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (08:41.844)
platoon and I was in Charlie Company, third platoon, third squad. And my first job was as a Bravo team rifleman. And we're now going to train 48 weeks a year. It's the craziest training schedule in the military and it's one of the most highly appropriated units in the military.

Lindsay Hiken (09:00.074)
Really?

Steve Keesal (09:08.465)
And they say in the Ranger Regiment that everything we train to standard, not to time. So in other words, a lot of people in the military do the same things as special operations forces, but they'll just do them once or twice. And special operations forces tend to do them until they're done perfectly. And so that's all the gasoline we need, all the ammunition we need, all the time it takes to make sure that you get it right. And to make sure that the people who doing the work are capable.

Lindsay Hiken (09:27.496)
I see, I see.

Steve Keesal (09:38.964)
It's extremely detailed work.

Lindsay Hiken (09:41.878)
I have a question. So you're with these 11 guys. Are you now with other Rangers that were already Rangers? Okay.

Steve Keesal (09:50.004)
yeah, just of us went to this, this battalion, which I think had six or 700 guys in it at the time. Yeah. And, so, and so that, you know, that became my family for the next, just under four years. And those are the guys that I went, took a deployment to Afghanistan with, and then, deployment to Iraq. And those are, are still, some of the people that,

Lindsay Hiken (09:56.36)
Okay, okay, wow.

Steve Keesal (10:19.72)
next to my wife and the rest of my family or some of my closest friends and family to this day.

Lindsay Hiken (10:27.552)
That's awesome. mean, I'm not surprised to hear that you became close with the guys that you were doing that with. It just seems like an upside of it and also a necessary part of it.

Steve Keesal (10:41.494)
You know, it'll always be a part of me, Lindsay, when we're talking about, you know, what I do for a living, when we're talking about the personal things I believe in, when we're talking about faith, when we're talking about spiritual health and mental health, you know, one of the key things that I take out of the Army is accountability. And one thing that

that was impressed upon me was that I would only be surrounded by people who were accountable to me and to whom I had to be accountable. And this is something that I'm a financial advisor in my professional life. And it's important that people know, hey, Steve might not be the smartest guy or he might not get it right every time or we might make lots of mistakes, but we will always

be there, we will always get to the bottom line, we will always be straightforward, we'll never, we would rather die than let you down. That's the standard that I like to apply to life.

Lindsay Hiken (11:54.4)
That's awesome. it's it's I think people that work with you are lucky to have you come with that that sort of mindset, I would say, into the financial world, because, you know, like anything, not everybody that you not everybody in your field would carry that same sort of mindset. Not everybody anywhere would carry that same sort of mindset, to be honest. But I think that's that's amazing.

Steve Keesal (12:22.165)
Well, thank God. a lot of the wisdom, if I ever have any, that I've picked up Wednesday is through mistakes. King Solomon says that beatings produce wisdom. And a large portion of my beatings were self-induced. I've been sober now by the grace of God for 20 plus years.

Lindsay Hiken (12:32.308)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (12:48.192)
Same.

Steve Keesal (12:49.141)
Excellent. I was a raging alcoholic with a, you know, that affected my moral compass and that affected my accountability and all of the great things about me. And it affected me a great deal. And I feel like maybe it made me a late bloomer in life and so on and so forth. But, you know, now I feel that, you know,

that sort of scar tissue makes a person stronger and that kind of experience makes you more patient with other human beings and more patient with yourself and humble before God and all the things that are important as far as going through life and feeling good and being able to spread that kind of

spirit to other people that are around you, which I think is important. It's probably the main reason we're here.

Lindsay Hiken (13:55.134)
Yes, I agreed on all of that. Just to kind of backtrack a little bit, were you. So you weren't were you sober when you were in the military or did you get sober while you were because I know you mentioned you enjoyed drinking part of the training.

Steve Keesal (14:08.565)
no.

When I was in the army, I lived life like it was a cowboy movie and I drank maybe three quarters of a bottle of whiskey every day and maybe more. would wake up after a 45 minute sleep and go for a blistering three or five mile run and then come back and nap for 45 minutes and then draw a machine gun and

Lindsay Hiken (14:16.438)
Mm.

Steve Keesal (14:38.986)
load a bunch of machine gun ammunition onto a truck, go out to a range and shoot for seven or eight hours. And then, you know, come back and go to the gym and then, you know, go out to an Irish bar in Savannah and do it all over again.

Lindsay Hiken (14:48.306)
my gosh.

Lindsay Hiken (14:56.619)
Were you someone who didn't have hangovers or were you just pushing on through?

Steve Keesal (15:00.949)
I was kind of always hungover and always with a splitting headache. And you know, it's either freezing cold or blistering hot in Georgia. always, you know, I would, I was just tough in a way no one needs to be eating dried top ramen out of the cargo pocket in my, you know, BDS and, you know, tough as nails, guess.

Lindsay Hiken (15:07.914)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (15:11.698)
Right?

Lindsay Hiken (15:22.464)
you

Steve Keesal (15:28.941)
You know, when you drink like that, you're always kind of sick to your stomach. And it's incredible to me that I put myself through a physical time like that with such a, know, there were times when I would be going through DTs and, you know, I'm in some physical school or something like that that the army sent me to, you know, and you kind of

Lindsay Hiken (15:29.408)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (15:33.834)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (15:39.563)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (15:57.668)
you don't just come down right away off all of that, that tricking. So, you know, I never underestimate our ability to make it difficult on ourselves, right?

Lindsay Hiken (16:01.428)
No.

Lindsay Hiken (16:07.638)
my gosh, that's one of my main character traits is I can take anything and blow it up into something that's now, know, a huge traumatic event. I do know I did not, obviously it was not in the army or military at all, but I can relate to pushing through life, you know, just with a hangover and a bad attitude, you know, just generally speaking.

not operating at my best, you know, and I will say this on the topic of, you know, being tough. I feel like so many of the sober alcoholics I know are tough in a different way just because of what we put ourselves through.

when we were out there and then just the process of sobering up and connecting with a higher power and taking account and being accountable for your actions now, but also for your actions, you know, in the past takes a lot of.

For me, I think it takes mostly a connection with a higher power. I have strength from that. But it also takes a certain amount of, know, chutzpah to come in and just say, hey, I messed this up to people over and over and over to go to each person and admit that you had done them harm in some way and that you were gonna try to make that up to them and those kinds of things. think for me are...

like you are like your experience of being in the Rangers, you it did things for you that carried on positively into the rest of your life. For me, the process of getting sober carried on positively into the rest of my life in a way that I would not have had I not gone through the process of being drunk, putting myself through all of the hell and then getting sober. I just wouldn't have that be able to have that perspective.

Steve Keesal (18:05.925)
Yeah, I agree 100 % about that. the amends process is beautiful. you know, humility does not come easily to people. Neither does just being straightforward, just, you know, communicating with people and telling them, you know, if people told people the truth all the time or told people how they really felt about things before even they made minor plans in life.

it would be much better on everybody. And think that people who have gone through the 12-step process and worked a program do have the experience of being straightforward in a way that does not come naturally to any of us. And I think it's extremely helpful. And again, it's one of those things where the broken tissue becomes stronger or the, you know,

the link gets even stronger.

Lindsay Hiken (19:06.814)
Yeah, I think that that's a good way of putting it.

The process of being broken for me is something that I draw in to get through tough times now. Sometimes I forget. Sometimes I'm like, I pour me this is happening or something for a few minutes. You know, I have that little pity party and then I'm like, geez, I mean, life today is good. There's really nothing happening in my life that isn't, you know, a high bottom problem, a Cadillac problem. There just really isn't in proportion.

Steve Keesal (19:38.107)
I love that. I love talking about perspective. you know, when I wake up in the morning, I try and try and do this every day, but I don't always get around to it. You know, I like to sit in style on the couch or on the floor, and I like to meditate for 10, 15, hopefully 20 minutes. And then afterwards, I get on my knees and I pray to God. And when I'm praying to God, you know, I'm told

to say the Lord's Prayer and a few others, but to pray for patience and perseverance and presence and perspective. And the perspective thing is something that sometimes, you know, in an instant, your perspective changes and you feel better about things or you understand the way you're supposed to approach something. And that's...

That's one of the things that, you know, that kind of separates us from being in tune. And, you know, some of the things like being present, you know, brushing your teeth while you're brushing your teeth, driving to work while you're driving to work, having the conversation with the client while you're having a conversation with a client. That's excellent. And then, you know, having some detachment as well is excellent. You know, these are things I read about, you know,

spiritual self-health groups, you know, back before I got connected to Jesus Christ, you know, and they're very, very helpful when you think about, you know, applying, you know, applying yourself to daily life.

Lindsay Hiken (21:06.667)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (21:21.622)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think I don't have the exact same regimen in the morning, although I do meditate. And I feel a connection to my higher power throughout the day. I do make sure I check in. I am someone who regularly forgets and wants to take control of everything in my life. And so.

Steve Keesal (21:43.718)
You're not alone.

Lindsay Hiken (21:45.046)
I'll be like, gosh, this is painful, you know, and I realized, well, because you're bashing your head against a wall, why don't you connect, you know, turn it over a little bit and turn over my will. And when I do that, then things just sort of, you know, happen and they may not unfold in the way that I envision them unfolding or think that I need them to unfold or want them to unfold or whatever. But it's always better than what my own brain can come up with.

I've had an experience recently where I, I, I switched jobs and I've talked about it a little bit on the show, but I was really in a position where I was really trying to control all these outcomes and it wasn't working, you know, and I was in a lot of pain and I just started asking for help, know, like, please God, I cannot, I cannot do this. and when I'm in that flow, I mean, some people call it God, some people call it

Buddha, some people call it higher power. doesn't really matter. I don't think what people call it. Just that connectivity. I get in that flow, things happen and I don't have to struggle or make them happen. And that's something I just experienced. Like with this new job, it just popped up just like here. It didn't, wasn't there though until I was like, I got a, I

You know, my best ideas aren't working and I'm in a lot of pain. So.

Steve Keesal (23:13.758)
That's the best. I just moved from one firm to another after 17 years last year. This is my year anniversary with my new firm. But yeah, there were a lot of times where our imagination is fascinating because we project things into the future that aren't going to happen or we...

Lindsay Hiken (23:22.091)
Wow.

Steve Keesal (23:42.363)
with different outcomes or we see things from the wrong perspective or from the worst perspective or sometimes from a perspective that's better than it should be and that sort of thing. And so it's easy to let those things make us uncomfortable. One of the most important things that I have to understand all the time is that

Lindsay Hiken (23:49.749)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (23:55.05)
Yeah.

Steve Keesal (24:11.171)
The information is already here. We already have it. We already know these things. We already have it all within you. And it's just about us, you know, dialing in to that by, by mellowing ourselves out. You know, I was a guy who little later in life than other people became very driven and, and, and, and that drive is a great strength.

Lindsay Hiken (24:26.123)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (24:34.582)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (24:39.986)
You know, never stop, persevere, keep going, keep going. And another thing that I had that goes along with that is an attention to detail, which I probably always had. And maybe the army made me weird that way as far as attention to detail. So I got this drive and this attention to detail. And that's good. But it also can build up anxiety or anxiety and other people around you. Or it can make you think that you're

running the ship and stop paying attention to the direction you should be from God. I think we all have this in our stomach, I think we have this compass that guides us around in our gut. And it's a question of understanding that. I believe that decisions

Lindsay Hiken (25:34.118)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (25:37.631)
important decisions are made in like a three step process. And I articulated this, this, you have fantasy, then you have vision, and then you have execution. And, you know, fantasy is when you're kind of thinking about something, the way it might work out, gosh, that would be cool if it worked out that way, you know, and then vision is when you're actually starting to see how it might work, work it out.

Talk with other people about it. Look at the, you know, what's the, what are the schematics behind this? Can we really pull this off? Will this really be an effective thing to do? Does this make sense? You know, the dollars and cents and all of that type of stuff. And then, and then you finally get into execution of things. And, you know, it's helpful for me to think about

about decisions like that, because some of them stay in fantasy forever, or some of them go into vision and they kind of die there. But all of these things, the most important thing is to be paying attention and to be seeing the way things are really going down and not trying to drive them according to my imagination.

Lindsay Hiken (26:50.656)
Yeah. Mm hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (26:57.002)
Right. Yeah, yeah, I, I feel that for sure. I love to think of things and I have a lot of things that probably stay in the fantasy, you know, world because I'm like, this would be great. But I mean, when I talk them through with my partner, who's also sober or my sponsor, you know, I'll say I'm thinking about this. And then they may have a question or two that is like,

Yeah, I didn't think about that. I only thought about the good part, not the not reality, you know. And that's why it's great to have people in your life, I think that can you can bounce things off of to I know my my own, you know, right, to just be able to say like, this is what I'm thinking, but I'm aware that not all of my thinking is my best thinking.

Steve Keesal (27:39.168)
Absolutely.

Lindsay Hiken (27:48.854)
So I have those people in my life. And do you have particular people in your life that you kind of run these things by or that you use as your sounding board?

Steve Keesal (27:57.09)
You know what, I sure do. thank God, I've got all kinds of friends around me in the professional sphere. I'm really lucky because everybody I work with is smarter than I am. And from the beginning, they've all had more experience. And I started out and my first clients were principals and accounting firms and that sort of thing. you really learn.

from people about that. I learned business from people who knew what they were talking about, you know, in the context of doing what was the right thing for them. And then, you know, in a spiritual setting, you know, I've been taking advice from other men and women for a really long time, but I'm also able to

help other people. And a lot of times when I'm talking to people about, you know, what is backward about them or how they've got it wrong, I'm really talking to myself or I'm noticing these things in myself. And so it's really hard to give somebody direction about, you know, what they should be doing in their relationship, for instance, and not be doing that in your relationship.

You know, and so there are both people I go to for advice and mentors. And then there is there's the process of helping other people or giving other people direction. And then, you know, once in a while that the Cobbler's children have no shoes or something like that, you know, you can can, know, you can give good advice and not get it. But a lot of times that that helps you.

Lindsay Hiken (29:25.034)
Yes.

Lindsay Hiken (29:43.07)
Right.

Steve Keesal (29:53.466)
I've got all kinds of people who give me advice and give me direction and who I'm either able to bounce things off or who are able to give me some guidance. And I think it's really important to be able to share things with people. mean, this is one of the things that makes life fulfilling is that we're all going to do this together.

Lindsay Hiken (30:23.242)
Yeah, yeah.

Steve Keesal (30:23.38)
And gosh, I mean, I I belong to this, these boards of directors, and I'm sure you do the same thing, but learning from people, for instance, you know, in the rotary club, I go to this garage on Saturday mornings and smoke cigars with these guys who are all in their late seventies or early eighties, you know.

Lindsay Hiken (30:31.253)
Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (30:49.376)
that's awesome.

Steve Keesal (30:50.089)
And you if you want to learn, it's like a Masters class in business, you know. And you know when I was involved with the Fisher House Board years ago, I was learning about fundraising from a guy who ran a. Hospital foundation and another friend of mine who is an ex congressman. And so you know I've been able.

Lindsay Hiken (30:55.88)
huh.

Lindsay Hiken (31:15.83)
Mmm.

Steve Keesal (31:18.311)
through the things that I've been able through the things that I do to really get a lot of good advice and meet just a ton of people who are able to teach me about a lot of things. And that's one of the best parts of life.

Lindsay Hiken (31:39.062)
I agree and you said a couple things. So for me I feel like practically in some ways practically to bring the spiritual and the physical world together I feel like sometimes I'm getting my spiritual lessons through other people through kind of what they're saying or what they do. But the big piece that you touched on that is important that I think is important is the

you know, getting outside of yourself and helping other people and in doing so, being able to, you know, figure things out for yourself about yourself. And for me, also part of, you know, I think my.

I would say being in touch and staying with my values and my moral compass is when I help other people, it reminds me of this is who I really am. This is what I think. You know, I might be outside of that a little bit and feeling uncomfortable because I'm doing something, trying to control something or whatever. It's like, that's right. Like what you're saying, it's like if I could tell someone they'll ask me for advice. And then as I'm saying it, I'm like, man, I'm not, I'm not doing that myself. Dang it.

Steve Keesal (32:38.819)
That's an excellent point.

Steve Keesal (32:50.413)
Hahaha

Lindsay Hiken (32:53.014)
But okay, so you brought up being on the board and I know that you were doing some work with a veterans group. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Steve Keesal (33:04.409)
Yeah, absolutely. so, geez, I like, the service of all kinds. And when I started out, I got sober at the VA and I got sober to a place called new directions for veterans. And, know, that was the first service work that I liked was helping other veterans, helping other alcoholics and, you know, helping.

People who are having experiences similar to mine. The first the first, you know. Real hardcore. Service organization that I belong to, which is still close to my heart is Rotary. And I joined Rotary and that was great because it was like a mothership for all other organizations and all of the members. Each one was like a.

Lindsay Hiken (33:50.838)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (34:03.462)
a diamond in the rough that once you picked them up and looked at them, they had a bunch of different things they were involved in. And it was just a question of what you're passionate about. So right now, I am a member emeritus of the Fisher House of Southern California. I was just at their Christmas party and that was an important one for me because the Fisher House is a

like a Ronald McDonald House. is a place where you can stay while your loved ones are receiving treatment in a VA hospital or a Department of Defense hospital. And they're really nice. They're like montage hotel style inside. mean, they're really, really nice places. And they're right there on the grounds. So.

Lindsay Hiken (34:35.603)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (34:46.802)
awesome.

Steve Keesal (34:55.779)
That was a place where I really learned about capital campaigns and fundraising as I was, we went out to raise 3 million bucks and we ended up raising, you know, four and a half. Cause once you get that engine going, just goes. And, you know, the people who talk about mentors, was learning from Steve Kuykendall, who was an Anglican Marine and an ex-congressman. He's no longer with us. He's one of my best friends.

Lindsay Hiken (35:08.126)
Wow.

Steve Keesal (35:24.577)
And my friend Terry Guiling, who is a submarine officer and is an IBM executive. these were the guys that we started these things with. And that was marvelous. And then there is the American Gold Star Manor. American Gold Star Manor is a, and again, this stuff all ties back to Rotary Club. It's, you know, there were 10 members of the board of both of these originally.

Lindsay Hiken (35:44.182)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (35:54.526)
and seven or eight of them were Rotarians. So a friend of ours calls us the do-gooder mafia. You get a good group of people who are tied in and the guy who introduced you and I, Tony Gales, he's one of those guys that's involved in everything good, right? Okay. And who we've been doing this stuff with for a long time. So...

Lindsay Hiken (35:57.846)
okay.

Lindsay Hiken (36:02.708)
Ha ha ha

Lindsay Hiken (36:10.674)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (36:19.942)
The American Gold Star Manor and I'm the vice chair there. It's a housing project for the moms and dads of dead soldiers and for elderly veterans. And we're at Santa Fe in spring in Long Beach. And there are hundreds of apartments. It's a nice area with a lot of green space and just it's kind of all around this big central garden. And we call it Long Beach's best kept secret. But

Lindsay Hiken (36:27.796)
you

Lindsay Hiken (36:46.6)
Wow, that's amazing. I didn't know that that kind of thing even existed.

Steve Keesal (36:50.32)
it's great. And I've got to have you for like the Memorial Day celebration there. And it's cool because two of our members of the board are the first vice president and the president of the American Gold Star Mothers, which is an organization based out of Washington, D.C. And we're always supporting them. We're always taking guidance from them.

Lindsay Hiken (36:54.686)
Yeah

Lindsay Hiken (37:08.149)
you

Steve Keesal (37:19.675)
There are people who show us the direction we should be headed in. There are also the people who told us, hey, you need to start a Fisher House for the Long Beach VA. So the Gold Star Mobs give us a lot of direction about, what's the right cause for veterans? And that's what should we be focusing on? And then I'm currently on the board

Lindsay Hiken (37:32.83)
Okay.

Lindsay Hiken (37:44.616)
That's awesome.

Steve Keesal (37:48.835)
of the YMCA of Greater Long Beach. And I think this is there's just so many great things. You know, when I talk about my involvement with the Y, when I talk about my involvement with the Boy Scouts, you know, it's important that Carlos Slim said instead of making the world a better place for our children, we should be making better children for the world. And I can get hardcore. I can get cynical.

Lindsay Hiken (37:52.009)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (38:16.653)
And I don't have any kids, so it's very easy for me to judge people who do. And you know that they're creating a softer generation or that these people aren't accountable and so on and so forth. So instead of getting, know, slipping into darkness about that is so much better for me to support the type of things that I believe in and to support, you know, organizations that produce young people who look me in the eye and who are accountable.

Lindsay Hiken (38:21.663)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (38:25.226)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (38:45.772)
And there are a lot of people doing a lot of great things and I want to be a part of that and I want to be a part of of making a better generation of young people. And so that's that's a lot of the involvement that that I'm into right now. There's there's one more mention this and then shut up the Long Beach Community Foundation, which is which is a.

Lindsay Hiken (39:06.71)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (39:13.596)
beautiful organization which looks at the greater Long Beach community, how we can improve it, and also looks at how can we support the philanthropic interests of people who have the treasure, have the inclination, but don't know in which direction to steer it or how to get it in the direction they want it steered.

Lindsay Hiken (39:40.256)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (39:43.082)
Or the third part of that is supporting local nonprofits and making sure that despite their size that they're able to handle all of the administrative needs that they need. And we can custody their funds for them and we can help them do their books and so on and so forth. that is a...

Another great organization. I'm about to turn off that board, but that's another place where I've just learned so much. It's incredible.

Lindsay Hiken (40:21.718)
Well, that's all amazing. You are definitely a inspiration in terms of giving back to the community. And now I'm kind of going, hmm, what am I actually doing other than kind of being frustrated, you know?

Steve Keesal (40:35.037)
Are you kidding? You're doing a lot of good. You and Mike are doing a lot of good here.

Lindsay Hiken (40:41.024)
Well, that's our goal. That's one of our goals is to make us a place where people can listen and relate and not feel isolated and alone in their, potentially in their struggles or what they're going through or sometimes to add some levity when we talk about athletics and things like that, which is something I wanna touch on with you at the end here.

But I just wanna say kudos to you because you just listed off like, I don't even know how many things that you're currently involved in. And I love the idea, especially right now in time of finding something that you can do that's a positive thing.

as opposed to going over to the dark side of like, this all sucks and I can't, know, whatever the problem is, you know. And I do have children. They are older now, they're young adults. were kept alive until they became adults. that's a parental win, you know. And I...

I kind of know what you're talking about in terms of creating a somewhat softer generation. feel like there was sort of since my kids are older, they missed out on some of the the upside as children of just being able to do whatever they want or say whatever they missed that part. But it's probably a good thing in a lot of ways. And it's it's it's. But with that said, you know, as young adults, my my daughter, especially as expressed

just frustration with the world today. And while you were talking, I was thinking about like, maybe there's something that she and I could do together. That would be, you know, beneficial in terms of changing the perspective, kind of like what we talked about earlier, it's just all about perspective, like, are you going to help be part of the change? Or are you going to wait for a change? Or are you going to complain about the change? you know, what, what, what are you going to do? And so I appreciate you inspiring me today for that. And I

Steve Keesal (42:35.05)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (42:46.92)
and setting an intention now to do something about that when we get off this call. OK.

Steve Keesal (42:52.232)
and inspiration is entirely mutual.

Lindsay Hiken (42:55.35)
Well, thank you. just have been listening and enjoying myself immensely. Okay, just, you know, last thing before you go, because I can, I'm looking at you and I can tell you didn't, you didn't go back to being a lump on the couch after you left the Rangers. You look like you are fit. And so just curious, what do you do to stay physically fit?

Steve Keesal (43:17.836)
I'm glad that we're all focusing on this because, you know, physical fitness and exercise and is something that it's almost like cheating as far as spiritual health. really, it really helps us. I know it really helps you too to, to, to, to, be physical. So I go to the gym five times a week. I try and do 30 minutes of cardiovascular exercise five times a week.

I was fat shamed by a woman in a clothing shop in Palm Springs who said, Steve, you need to do 30 minutes of cardiovascular exercise every day. And every time I passed that shop now where I'm in Palm Springs, I stopped it and give her a hug because she was right. know, 25 minutes doesn't keep me skinny and 40 minutes doesn't do any more for me. So I have to, you know, I have to run a stair stepper or Nordic track for 30 minutes every time I go to the gym.

Lindsay Hiken (43:48.329)
No.

Lindsay Hiken (43:52.15)
Ha ha ha ha

Lindsay Hiken (44:02.784)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (44:12.31)
Mm.

Steve Keesal (44:14.303)
And then I have a weight regiment. It's one that I started in the army where I do back and chest one day and I do shoulders another day. And then I do biceps and triceps the third day. And then I have two alternating sets along those days, one with leg curls and the other one with leg curls and extensions. And then another one for calves and

Lindsay Hiken (44:18.73)
Hmm.

Steve Keesal (44:43.374)
and presses. And so that tends to do gym work for me. When I do that in the morning before I go to work, and should I not be able to do that, then I just get out on mornings like this morning for a run. And the runs are generally just like 30 minutes. I'm a 51-year-old man now, and I've not beaten myself to death, but I try and stay in shape.

Lindsay Hiken (45:00.63)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (45:11.69)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (45:11.949)
There's a lot of walking I do with my wife. She and I are into urban hiking. We take these, you know, three, five, sometimes seven mile walks together and that's a blast. And generally we just walk through neighborhoods where we want to look at the houses and it's just a lot of fun. And some of the longer ones will be, you know, on the strand in the South Bay or we'll drive to a location and walk with that. That's kind of our favorite thing.

Lindsay Hiken (45:17.963)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (45:22.751)
Nice

Lindsay Hiken (45:28.585)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (45:41.92)
So.

Lindsay Hiken (45:42.26)
I love the idea of urban hiking. That's kind of a cool idea. I'd never heard that term, but I think that's a really neat thing to do.

Steve Keesal (45:49.913)
It's wonderful. I'm really into scuba diving and we go after lobsters, particularly in the, you know, fall and winter months. And that's a blast. That's something that has, I have just the right amount of concentration. And I really love that. So I go into the desert with friends of mine. have friends who are involved in looking for

Lindsay Hiken (45:54.198)
Mmm.

Steve Keesal (46:18.029)
prehistoric North American artifacts and that'll generally involve walking around the desert for three or five miles. so, know, getting out on the water, getting out in the desert, you know, walking around, going to the gym, belong to a gun club in Huntington Beach and.

Lindsay Hiken (46:20.669)
wow!

Lindsay Hiken (46:40.66)
I think Tony mentioned that he shoots with you.

Steve Keesal (46:43.179)
And I love that. mean, I mean, that's something that. If you approach it correctly involves focus and accountability. I'm a big believer in Liberty. I think this is the greatest country in the world. think we have to, you know, can have the greatest society in the world as far as, as far as Liberty is concerned. But we need accountability to be.

locked, tied to liberty. And I think it's really important that people learn with guns or with automobiles or dare I say with relationships or families, that they need to be focused, that they need to be accountable, that they can do whatever they want. You and I would say this in our tradition, that we could do whatever we want.

Lindsay Hiken (47:17.792)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (47:40.204)
provided we're willing to accept the consequences, right? Yeah.

Lindsay Hiken (47:43.88)
Right. Yes, exactly. You know, the gun, the whole gun topic is interesting. I've always just been like, I don't like guns. I don't care if other people have them as long as they're responsible with them. don't. I'm afraid of them. But my my partner, Josh, a couple of years ago, felt for.

you know, for our safety in our home, he felt that he wanted to get a gun and he has he has one and he went to the range and he learned everything about it and he has it in a log place and he wants you know, he's been encouraging me to learn how to shoot and I've been very resistant to doing that. But over the last, I don't know, six months to a year, I'd say six months to nine months, I've become more open to it. I have a girlfriend who was like,

you know, it doesn't it's not going to harm you to learn how to responsibly handle a gun. doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. And it might help you. And so I'm I'm I've slowly become more open to it. It's not anything I've done yet. But I've I've agreed to to Josh that I would be willing to go try. And so that's a little journey I'm about to go go on. And, know, he's he said even just for the safety of the fact we have one in our home, like I need to

know what to do with it, you know, and so, so I'm going to be making a little journey to learn how to shoot. I'm kind of, I'm kind of afraid, but I'm also kind of like, hmm, it's another, it's another challenge, another thing I can get, learn and get good at. And, so that part is exciting to me.

Steve Keesal (49:24.795)
I know you're going to be great in it. I love to share this with other people. There's so many powerful things in our lives, be they firearms or vehicles or even the internet and, you know, the pen is mightier than the sword, let's say, right? And anyone can use

Lindsay Hiken (49:49.896)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (49:52.657)
this second part of the communications revolution to just disseminate information quickly. But it seems to me that whether you're a middle school student or the president of a large country, that you might not take that responsibility, that awesome responsibility, that awesome power as seriously as you should. And so it's important for everybody to

Lindsay Hiken (50:13.792)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Hiken (50:17.91)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (50:22.456)
to understand as much as they can about the awesome power that we're able to wield and to connect back to God, to connect back to what we should be doing, to connect back even to what we want to be doing or intend to be doing. so I think that it's gonna be a helpful thing and a fun thing for you to do.

Lindsay Hiken (50:42.614)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Keesal (50:50.312)
And it's just another thing that you enjoy and makes you spiritually stronger.

Lindsay Hiken (50:58.838)
Yep, yep, I'm excited. I've let go of some of my contempt prior to investigation is one of the terms I've learned in 12 step program. you know, I'll have it right, I'll just have and then I realized like, what am I I don't even know anything about this? Like, what is it I don't like? How can I dislike something I know zero about? So so I'm letting go of my contempt prior to investigation where that's concerned. Well, Steve, you know, I could talk to you.

Steve Keesal (51:08.664)
Me too.

Lindsay Hiken (51:27.552)
for another five hours. But and maybe we will have to do another episode because I think you and Mike have so much in common to talk about. But we've hit our limit for the show in and of itself. And I just want to say thank you so much for coming on. It's just really been a pleasure.

Steve Keesal (51:45.874)
But the pleasure is all mine. I really enjoyed our conversation as well. Thank you for having me and what a wonderful thing to be a part of.

Lindsay Hiken (51:54.55)
Thank you so much. Folks, we will see you again next week. Follow us wherever you get your podcast. Just subscribe. And if you have it in your heart, give us a few stars, hopefully five, that helps our show spread to other people who might benefit from hearing us. All right, we'll talk to you next week. Bye.