154 Stress Management

Summary

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, hosts Lindsay and Mike delve into the topic of stress, exploring its various sources, impacts, and coping mechanisms. They share personal insights about their experiences with stress, including financial pressures, work-related anxiety, and the challenges of maintaining relationships. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding stress as a normal part of life and discusses practical strategies for managing it effectively. In this conversation, Lindsay and Mike explore the complexities of stress, its impact on performance, and effective strategies for managing it. They discuss the dual nature of stress, how it can enhance performance for some individuals, and the importance of healthy lifestyle habits such as exercise, nutrition, and sleep. The conversation also delves into practical stress management techniques, including deep breathing, progressive muscle relaxation, and the significance of social connections and creative outlets in maintaining mental health.

Takeaways

• Stress is a normal part of life and can affect everyone differently.
• Financial stress can be exacerbated by social comparisons.
• Personal relationships often involve conflicts that can lead to stress.
• Coping mechanisms vary; some may resort to unhealthy habits.
• Gratitude can help mitigate feelings of stress.
• Understanding the sources of stress is crucial for management.
• Chronic stress can be influenced by family history and personal tendencies.
• Physical symptoms of stress can manifest in various ways, including anxiety and muscle tension.
• Healthy lifestyle habits are crucial for managing stress.
• Regular exercise helps reduce stress and improve mood.
• Deep breathing engages the parasympathetic nervous system.
• Progressive muscle relaxation can help reset the body.
• Time management strategies can alleviate stress.
• Social connections are important for mental health.
• Creative outlets provide necessary emotional expression.
• Understanding the physiological effects of stress can improve coping strategies.

Sound Bites

• "I took a 23andMe test."
• "I don't really want to know anything about my family that deep."
• "Stress is a normal part of life."
• "You need that blood back in your forebrain."
• "I can see my heart rate going down."
• "Regular exercise can help reduce stress."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction and Personal Insights

02:54
Understanding Stress and Its Sources

06:06
The Impact of Financial Stress

08:58
Physical and Mental Responses to Stress

11:54
Common Causes of Stress

15:05
Navigating Relationships and Conflicts

18:08
Coping Mechanisms and Strategies for Stress Management

23:39
Understanding Stress and Performance

30:14
Healthy Lifestyle Habits for Stress Management

48:20
Practical Stress Management Strategies

Keywords

stress, mental health, financial stress, coping mechanisms, relationships, anxiety, personal insights, podcast, self-care, emotional health, stress management, performance, healthy lif

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Transcript

Lindsay (00:01.768)
Hey there, welcome to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm Lindsay and I'm here with my co-host, Mike. How's it going, Mike?

Mike (00:11.16)
It's going good. Feeling nice and caffeinated this morning. How you doing?

Lindsay (00:12.564)
Good, I haven't had mine yet, but I'm about to crack it open when you're talking. I'm going mute myself and start. I'm going to drink a Diet Coke because coffee is too bitter sometimes and today's one of those days. Okay, so let's see. Tell the listener something about yourself, which they probably don't know.

Mike (00:20.302)
Crack it open, what are you drinking today?

Mike (00:29.614)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (00:40.302)
It actually segues into what you're saying about coffee being bitter. I took a 23andMe test and it so it does at least it used to do both ancestry and genetic profiles and in the genetic profile part it talked about how I have a genetic mutation that

doesn't allow me to taste as much bitter as the average person. And so things like coffee or kale or other bitter things don't really bother me as much. So I'm okay with like black coffee. I might prefer it. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:10.868)
Hello.

Lindsay (01:22.196)
Wow.

Every time I ask you this question, I find out that you're a freak every single time. Last week, was something about just trying to remember what it was, but it was about you liking, gosh, something that I can't stand. Jelly ballies. See? Well, maybe this mutation makes it so you can't taste how bad those are.

Mike (01:40.762)
it was butter popcorn, jelly bellies. Yep.

Mike (01:52.913)
Maybe. That's good. What's something about you, Lindsay?

Lindsay (01:59.636)
let's Hmm. I haven't taken a 23 and me test because, well, I just haven't cared to, but also I've watched, I listened to a lot of true crime podcasts and watched some true crime with Josh. And they're always finding out that like someone's a serial killer through like a relative that took a 23 and me test or something. I'm at a point where I'm like,

Mike (02:24.702)
Hahaha

Mike (02:28.598)
Mm-mm.

Lindsay (02:28.914)
I don't really want to know anything about my family that deep. So I'm going to just forego the 23andMe test. I'm like that the way you are with AI.

Mike (02:36.558)
That's fair.

Mike (02:43.246)
Got it. It freaks me out. Like even doing the show notes. Like we can, I can tell it, maps out perfectly exactly what we're talking about. That freaks me out a little bit.

Lindsay (02:54.344)
Yeah, that's a little crazy, isn't it? It is a little bit weird. It's very useful. But sometimes I wonder if it's a thing where we're like, AI is great. It's so useful until it's like you are now our slave. know, we've now learned everything you know, and we're learning more. So sorry. Which can be stressful.

Mike (03:12.118)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Mike (03:17.742)
Go.

Lindsay (03:24.488)
worrying about things like that. I'm trying. So today we're going to talk about stress. speaking of AI, I looked up what AI can tell us about stress. But first I want to know, are some things that stress you out, Mike?

Mike (03:25.278)
good segue.

Mike (03:44.75)
Let's see, I think probably some of the typical things. Work. Am I doing enough? know, finances. Work and finances, I think, are the biggest things. then and then like family relationships. Am I doing enough? Am I am I doing enough to provide?

Lindsay (04:13.352)
Hmm, that's very sweet. Yeah. Same thing, know, work, finances, family relationships. But with my work, it's more like it's less like, am I doing enough to serve somebody more about like, am I doing enough to get where I want to go in in my career?

Mike (04:39.945)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (04:43.412)
which is definitely can be a very selfish way of looking at it, but at the same time, that part of the motivation there is so that I can better support my family and those kinds of things.

Mike (04:59.4)
Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with with pursuing things that benefit yourself. I mean, the only time I think it turns into selfishness is that when you do that, at the exclusion of other people, like, I really want to, I really want to beat this person. or, you know, I really want to get better at work. And while I'm doing it, exclude the other people in my life or do that at their cost, right?

Lindsay (05:13.588)
Mmm.

Lindsay (05:23.418)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, or act.

Lindsay (05:31.974)
take actions against someone else at work, to undermine them or something to get ahead, step on people. Yeah, I don't do that. I would be much richer and further along in my career if I was willing to do those things.

Mike (05:35.072)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (05:46.463)
I can't stomach that kind of stuff so I don't know if I would be or not but...

Lindsay (05:51.796)
I even know what to do. Honestly, if I woke up one day and was like, okay, today's the day I'm going to climb up the corporate ladder and I'm going to pull all the people above me down. I wouldn't actually know how to do that. My brain doesn't work that way. Fortunately.

Mike (06:06.85)
I would find myself going up to people and be like, hey, I'm going to do something really selfish and I'm going to undermine you. But just so you know, you're a really good person and don't take it personally.

Lindsay (06:21.748)
They're like, OK, I'm going to HR right now. my gosh. And then with financial stress. So one thing with the financial stress that I've noticed, and maybe you don't have this, but living here in the Bay Area, there's a lot of people that have a lot, just a lot down here on the peninsula, like crazy amounts of money.

Mike (06:24.852)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (06:41.63)
Hmm

Lindsay (06:50.608)
unnecessary amounts of money, to be honest. And so we're surrounded by these people and it starts making you feel like you are poor or like you don't have enough. know what I mean? Relative, but I mean, it is it's all relative to our surroundings, but I'll feel like, my gosh, I don't earn enough. And what's going to happen when the reality is

Mike (07:03.368)
relatively, yeah.

Lindsay (07:18.676)
If I just don't even look at those people and not worry about those people, I'm fine.

Mike (07:22.57)
mm-hmm yeah yeah

Lindsay (07:26.803)
I've heard

Lindsay (07:30.418)
I heard, I don't remember where, but I heard a guy who's hundreds of millionaires, hundreds of millions of millionaires, and saying, the thing is it's always relative because once you move into the neighborhood with the big muckety mugs, then you realize, that guy's a billionaire. I don't have enough.

Mike (07:53.249)
Hmm.

Yeah, that's such an interesting concept to me because I think I've been lucky to travel with both the military and previously with going on like church trips to places and developing world where I've seen, my God, there's a lot of people who don't even have running water. I think that perspective is just kind of stuck with me. So if I...

It's balanced that out.

Lindsay (08:28.456)
That's lovely. I'm jealous. Well, I do actively work on being grateful. And that does reduce some of the stress of that. But it can be challenging when I have a lot of friends who are in that sort of

range and they're like, well, can you come to Hawaii? Can we go to Europe? Can you do? And I'm like, because I have to go to work every day. Then I pay my mortgage with that money. So that's all just in my head, though. And I feel like a lot of stress can just be in your head. It can also be real.

Mike (08:58.7)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (09:02.968)
Yeah.

Mike (09:16.076)
yet. can also be real and and either way it affects your body because it's your perception. So either way it affects your body in certain ways, whether it's what would you call it perceived or actual?

Lindsay (09:32.622)
Right, The same effect, would think. And then I think people have the negative impacts of stress. They have that differently. Like some people...

Mike (09:35.873)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay (09:49.362)
Like Josh, for example, he doesn't really feel it physically. It's more just anxiety. He doesn't have like, I get sick, I'll get sick, I'll get canker sores, I'll have a migraine, I'll sick to my stomach. He won't have that, but he'll have just like generalized anxiety that's almost debilitating. How does it present in you?

Mike (09:55.437)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (10:09.528)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

anxiety is one part of it and then I feel a tensing of my abdomen and tensing of my shoulders quite a bit. And let's see, and then I'll notice the ways that I deal with it, like stress eating or just trying to soothe myself through Instagram scrolling or something.

Lindsay (10:36.271)
Yes.

Lindsay (10:42.45)
Yeah, yeah, things that aren't really helpful.

Mike (10:45.89)
Yeah, so I guess I kind of skipped over into what I do to deal with it. But the way as I feel it, yeah, worry, anxiety, and then muscle tension.

Lindsay (10:59.666)
I relate to the shoulders. I've got the shoulders too. And that's where my migraines, it's a trigger is that I scrunch them up so much that after a while for whatever reason, my head starts pounding and then, you know, all the same stuff. So I asked AI what are some common causes of stress.

Mike (11:09.923)
Mmm.

Mike (11:16.835)
Yeah.

Lindsay (11:25.436)
And it says, first thing it says is stress is a normal part of life. So that's something I need to remember, too. Like the feeling of stress isn't necessarily like, my God, I shouldn't feel like this. Why is it like this? Because I can have I can have that sort of black and white doom sort of thinking. Mm Yeah, which makes it totally worse. I come from a long line of people who have stress constantly and don't know how to deal with it. So.

Mike (11:37.525)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (11:41.826)
Yeah, it really ramps it up.

here.

Lindsay (11:54.258)
It says it can negatively impact your mental and physical health, which we know. Here are some common causes of stress. So first is major life events like death of a loved one. So loss is one, change, moving, starting a new job, getting married, illness or injury, personal or loved ones. And then everyday stressors, financial problems, work.

Mike (12:08.728)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (12:21.31)
heavy workload, difficult colleagues, or job dissatisfaction. So that's interesting, job dissatisfaction can cause you stress. I guess that makes sense. I just always say I feel dissatisfied or I don't like this, but I mean, I guess that is a form of stress, not liking something.

Mike (12:25.954)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (12:31.139)
Yeah.

Mike (12:38.146)
Well, I think I'd say there's things that aren't satisfying with every job. Because, I mean, you're getting paid to do something that you probably a lot of times wouldn't normally do. Unless you were getting paid. But then I'd say job dissatisfaction might kind of cross the bridge into I'm not satisfied with the kind of work I'm doing, like the field of it or

Lindsay (12:46.098)
Right.

Lindsay (12:52.116)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:06.892)
everything about it versus like, it's a stressful job. And there's this one part I don't like doing.

Lindsay (13:11.657)
Right.

That makes sense. Not necessarily this particular employer is, although that can be true too, a pain in the butt or doesn't treat me well or whatever. But yeah, it would be very stressful to be like, I don't like the field I'm in.

Mike (13:23.022)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (13:32.198)
Yeah, I mean, for example, what I do with veterans, I love it. And at the same time, there's a lot of stress involved because I'm partially responsible for the well-being of a lot of people in terms of what I can provide as services and helping them manage their own mental health.

Lindsay (13:57.112)
Yeah, I feel that's that's a lot of responsibility definitely, but there's such a huge upside to being able to I don't necessarily feel like I'm contributing in that kind of way in in my work because I'm an accountant CPAs, I guess are necessary in this world, but it's not it doesn't have quite the like impact right that that what you're doing, but

Mike (14:01.058)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:04.886)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Mike (14:24.663)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (14:27.846)
I do other things in my life that do have that. You know, I get that fulfilled otherwise. Mostly around interactions with other sober people, things like that, where I can be of service that way. Okay, what else does it say? relationships, conflict with friends, family or romantic partners, definitely.

Mike (14:31.244)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (14:41.396)
Mm-hmm exactly

Lindsay (14:54.184)
Definitely a cause of stress. I don't know anyone who's able to escape the conflict or something with a relationship in their life.

Mike (15:05.506)
I don't think you can because I think that relationships, and this is an interesting concept, but relationships are a series of conflicts. Not that we are like at war, at battle with the people we're around with, but everybody has their own needs and we try to balance that with the needs of other people. And...

and our own worldviews. And so when we interact with people, it's a series of minor conflicts a lot of times, like, I think this way, you think this way, what can we do that's a compromise perhaps, or which way are we going to choose if we need to take an action. So I just look at it as like, almost like bumper bowling, you you bump one side, you bump the other side, you bump the other side, eventually you get to the goal.

Lindsay (15:39.08)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (15:47.954)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (15:56.648)
That's a really good way of looking at it. I love it when you're able to therapy me. Because sometimes I'll. The good thing about my my personal my relationship with Josh is that he's not someone that will let me walk all over him, because I that's I'll do that without even meaning to and vice versa. You know, I don't let him walk all over me. We have a good balance there.

Mike (16:01.952)
Nn ha ha ha ha ha

Mike (16:17.496)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (16:24.994)
Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay (16:25.032)
but it does create conflict sometimes because we're definitely trying to make the other person just bend to our will. And then we, you know, we reached an agreement. That's basically what happens. It might take a little bit more time. And I have realized, I don't know if you've noticed this in therapy or somewhere else.

Mike (16:31.509)
Hehehehehe

Lindsay (16:47.258)
We have more conflict around a full moon than any other time of the month. It's like he's a werewolf. Yeah. He's, you when it when the full moon happens, he will act like kind of like a brat, you know, and like sometimes they'll be acting some kind of way. I need more blah, blah, I'm not getting enough, whatever. Basically, love and attention.

Mike (16:54.176)
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (17:04.653)
Hmm.

Mike (17:13.24)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (17:16.602)
But nothing's changed, you know, from the week before. And I will look at my phone and pull up the moon calendar and I'll be like, OK, full moon tomorrow.

Mike (17:29.91)
it's so interesting. mean, I don't understand the mechanism, but I see it as a thing because I look at the kind of the random phone calls or the what comes through my office around a full moon.

It's definitely a thing. I mean, there's a gravitational pull from the moon when this happens and it affects the tides. It affects a lot of things and we as humans, as human animals respond to the natural cycles of nature, be it the seasons of the year or the cycles of the moon. I don't know exactly how, but I know there definitely is a correlation.

Lindsay (17:50.014)
Yeah.

Lindsay (18:08.572)
Yeah, there is. And unfortunately, the correlation is not like I become extra positive and energized. I feel a little bit crazy and also like cycling. If you're riding a bike, sometimes run the full moon. The drivers are extra little extra scary or they got pedaled to the metal and they're just.

Mike (18:15.64)
Hahaha

Mike (18:27.542)
Oof. Yeah.

Mike (18:33.036)
Yeah. Also, wanted to speaking of that, give a shout out to one of our listeners, Craig Kamenas, who took a gotten a bike accident, involved in a car and he's healing up. So shout out to you, Craig. Thanks for being a listener and hope you're healing well, brother.

Lindsay (18:46.004)
Lindsay (18:50.908)
Yes, definitely. second that. I'm glad you are still with us too, because that is a distinct possibility. Heal quickly, Craig. yeah, I mean, I love riding my bike, but I do think about that.

Mike (18:56.364)
Yes, exactly.

Mike (19:09.265)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (19:10.652)
One of the reasons I like riding my gravel bike, not that this has, well, it does have something to do with stress and we're going to get into how to de-stress. But I love riding my gravel bike because when I get off the road, I can stop worrying about like what's coming up behind me. You know, I can just, I'm on the dirt. There's nothing coming. I have to worry about what's in front of me, you know, so I don't ride into something that I can't, you know, it's going to make me crash. But,

Mike (19:38.307)
Yeah.

Lindsay (19:41.298)
That generalized anxiety of like, is someone going to be driving and texting right behind me? It's gone, you know? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. OK, we're almost done with what can cause stress, I think. Hmm. Daily chores, traffic, household tasks or time management issues. Your girl got some time management issues for sure.

Mike (19:46.894)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's a nice way to view.

Mike (20:09.068)
Yeah.

Lindsay (20:10.516)
for sure. Do you have those? You seem to me like someone who doesn't have time management issues. It seems like you get up and you hit it.

Mike (20:17.26)
Yeah, I'll

waste time or spend time in less productive ways and then maybe rush towards the end and be hyper focused. So it depends or or I'll forget things. your guy here got a couple bumps on the head from a couple rocket attacks in Iraq. So I will forget things and be like, shit, the things do know I didn't do this thing. And then it's emergency.

Lindsay (20:30.411)
Okay.

Lindsay (20:35.698)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (20:41.116)
Oof.

Lindsay (20:51.346)
Yeah, okay, good. We're on the same page with that. Different reasons, different reasons why. But, you know, my biggest time management issue, and they say it's an ADHD thing, is just where I am in space and time, so which causes me to be, not give myself enough time to get somewhere, like chronically late, because I think I'm gonna drive from Haffey Bay to Palo Alto in a half an hour, which...

Mike (20:54.712)
Yeah.

Lindsay (21:21.244)
It only really takes about 35 minutes, assuming nothing goes wrong. There's no person who. Right. Best case scenario, still late. And I do it so much, it's frustrating. I'm like, why? And I try to squeeze in something extra for no reason. Like, well, let me quickly do the dishes before I leave. No, you're you're already late. So this is. I was glad to know that was an ADHD thing, and it wasn't that I'm just an ass.

Mike (21:25.484)
Right, best case scenario, you're still late.

Mike (21:42.904)
Yeah.

Mike (21:52.717)
It's not a character defect, it's a part of a diagnosis.

Lindsay (21:55.758)
Uh-huh. they say, OK, personal factors like your personality, perfectionism, pessimism, tendency to worry, unhealthy coping strategies, excessive drinking or drug use. I would add sugar and social media to that. Then lack of support, limited social support or lack of emotional outlets. So those are all.

Mike (22:04.418)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:13.432)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (22:20.64)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (22:24.19)
Those are all really important ones because those are ones that are not situational. know, traffic can clear up, your job can change and become less dissatisfying.

Mike (22:37.805)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (22:39.896)
Perfectionism, pessimism, tending to worry, and unhealthy coping strategies are something you'd have to, I feel like actively work on with like a therapist or someone. It's not like you can just say, I'm a perfectionist and therefore it's causing me stress and so I'm gonna quit being a perfectionist.

Mike (22:58.85)
Yeah, exactly. These are just... it's very ingrained patterns of behavior that a lot of times you don't see. It just is how things are for you.

Lindsay (23:04.35)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (23:09.65)
Yes, yes. And you have generalized stress all the time. That's when I kind of referred to having coming from a long line of people who have chronic stress. That's really what I'm referring to is this sort of just tendency to look at something from a negative perspective to the extent of even making things up, you know, that are negative. I have

Mike (23:12.48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (23:35.992)
Yeah.

Lindsay (23:39.186)
I have that in my family lineage. I do it less because I have worked on myself a lot. But that's the thing. And it can be frustrating dealing with these family members because I can go. So you're stressed because XYZ happened. And then when it changed to ABC, now ABC is stressing you out.

Mike (24:02.744)
Yeah, it's what's so interesting that the agency of stress, you know, for people who are maybe depressed or people who, for whatever reason, need that stress to get active. some people have to maybe hype themselves up as a, as not the right term, but in a sense, hype, hype themselves up with stress to be able to, really perform well or get into the mode of performance.

Lindsay (24:16.052)
Mm.

Mike (24:32.526)
You know, I think of the Oakland A's used to have this picture of Grant Balfour who would get so angry when he came in and then it probably helped that they played Metallica when he came in as a reliever. But he'd yell at the ball. He'd yell into his glove and like he'd like amp himself up to do that. But it's it's such an interesting response. Like people almost need that stress to really get the what is it cortisol flowing so they can just be high performing.

So some people really dig that.

Lindsay (25:04.848)
Yeah, okay, that's a good point. I never thought about it that way. Like, this is part of even though the deny there'd be a denial of enjoying that. mean, different than the guy, the guy in the A's was clearly doing it on purpose. But I didn't think about the fact that someone might enjoy that to a certain extent, even being aware that they enjoy that, that this is something that's

Mike (25:16.163)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:23.404)
Yeah.

Mike (25:31.446)
Yeah, either enjoy it or need it to like, you know, a lot of this is is in the subconscious mind. It's just we do what we do to get by. Yeah, it's it's so fascinating to to see how that how it plays out, because that's the difference between if someone like with the military mindset, you see a lot of people who have issues with anger or aggression.

Lindsay (25:34.081)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (25:58.454)
And it's because, you know, from day one and bootcamp people are taught, you know, you'd be aggressive to solve a problem, you know, because in a wartime situation, if you were passive or scared, then you're a liability. You're not part of, you're not an asset to the team to help get things done. But if you're angry or you're feeling that stress and you can harness it, then all of a sudden you're an asset. can, you can power through.

Lindsay (26:28.19)
And how easy is that to let go of when you leave the military?

Mike (26:31.168)
easy at all that's like half the reason I have a job is to help people be like look I know you're training this is ingrained in you here's what's happening here's how it's helpful in emergency situations here's how it's not helpful dealing with your kids or your significant other or your colleagues so but it's not taught like hey guys we're gonna teach you this thing because of this it's just that's how it is and you learn to be like that

Lindsay (26:57.17)
Right. I've seen some random footage of people yelling at people in their face while you're standing there type of situation. And I always thought, I don't think I could. I think I'd probably just they'd probably be like, you can go now. You're clearly going to be a liability just crying. You don't need to say all that.

Mike (27:20.625)
Exactly those those insults were completely unnecessary sir. Yeah.

Lindsay (27:23.932)
Yeah, that's not even true. Then the tears. They would tell you I was almost in the Navy. Yes, I almost almost was in the Navy. I took the the test. Was it called as fab? Yeah, crushed it. And they were like, you want to go to officer. OK, whatever. School or whatever they call it. And I was like, that sounds good.

Mike (27:32.8)
No!

Mike (27:40.424)
The ASVAB,

Mike (27:44.376)
course.

Mike (27:49.646)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (27:53.876)
that what was happening is I was in the deep throes of my disease of drinking. And I just had no clue how to live my life. And I was aware enough that I didn't have a clue how to live my life. I have an uncle I mentioned, I think last week that was a, they have a commander, you know.

Mike (28:07.693)
Mmm.

Mike (28:11.149)
Yeah.

Lindsay (28:18.812)
Talk to him and he said, yeah, this will, this will help you figure out what, how to live for sure. some discipline and also just provide me with, yeah, like discipline, but also just a set of a way to live, like do this, then do this, then do this, then do that. Structure. That's the word I was looking for. And so I took the test and I talked to them about it and I was like, about

Mike (28:37.61)
Mm-hmm. Structured life, yeah.

Lindsay (28:48.404)
to sign the paperwork and I got drunk the night before. I was supposed to go in there. And when I woke up with a hangover, I was like, yeah, I'm not doing this. And that was that. And things turned out OK. I got sober. But I could have potentially gotten sober quicker if I had some of that structure because what I needed was a little bit of space for my drinking, which I got.

Mike (28:59.159)
Yeah.

Mike (29:13.312)
Interesting, yeah.

Lindsay (29:17.646)
just by having other bad things happen to me to be like, I need to go get help, you know. But yeah, almost almost in the Navy and. If they were going to yell in my face, I probably been like in and right back out. And they would have been like, yeah, we don't need you either, sweet sweet chicks, you can go.

Mike (29:22.157)
Yeah.

Mike (29:26.967)
interesting, Lindsay. I learn something new almost every time we talk out. That's cool.

Mike (29:37.523)
Yeah, like not necessary do not need

Lindsay (29:48.28)
Okay, let's talk about stress management strategies. So under the the hudder of healthy lifestyle habits, our favorite thing first front and center regular exercise physical activity can help reduce stress and improve mood. I mean,

Mike (30:14.307)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (30:17.086)
kind of the whole thing of our podcast is about mental health and physical, the connection with physical movement. Yeah. What are you doing today to, to, you're doing your training, I know with Steph. Yeah.

Mike (30:23.842)
Yeah, yeah, that intersection right there, yep.

Mike (30:35.726)
Yeah, let's see what's on the schedule for today. I got a... it's probably gonna be 20 minutes. I got ab grinder. That's what I'm doing today. I'm gonna grind some abs. Yeah, it does. It's pretty fun though actually, surprisingly. These are like 20 to 30 minute high intensity interval. So it's lot different than our hour to two hour to five hour long.

Lindsay (30:47.124)
Sounds horrific.

Lindsay (31:05.3)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (31:05.582)
you know, steady state cardio sessions.

Lindsay (31:09.244)
Okay, that's kind of cool. I woke up today with nothing planned, which is not the best because when nothing is planned, then work just takes over. So I'm going to need to think about what I'm going to do at the very, very least. I'm going to go walk three miles at the very least. I'd like to walk jog because I am wanting to start running again. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to commit to a little

Mike (31:19.416)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (31:37.396)
three mile walk jog. It's actually a little less than three miles. There's a loop that goes down to the ocean along the along the ocean and then back up to my house.

Mike (31:42.528)
perfect.

Perfect, yeah.

Lindsay (31:47.068)
Okay, that sounds like a plan. can do that. And I'm going to do it right after work. At the time, I'm going to leave work at the time I'm supposed to be done and go do this run before it gets dark. No app grinder for me. No, thank you. Balanced diet, nutrient rich foods can support overall health and well being as we know, sufficient sleep.

Mike (31:57.998)
Good.

Mike (32:10.636)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Lindsay (32:13.598)
They're not telling us anything we don't know. Really. The question more is like, are we implementing it? Sufficient sleep, limit caffeine, deep breathing, meditation or mindfulness. progressive muscle relaxation. Yes, the tense and release. I forget about it all the time though.

Mike (32:23.107)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (32:28.012)
Relaxation, yeah. You know about that?

Mike (32:34.954)
It's such a helpful thing. It's just like retraining for the listeners who are not familiar with this progressive muscle relaxation is a series of tensing and releasing of muscles progressing through your body. You can start at your feet and go all the way up to your face and ear muscles. but you essentially

you tense them for about five seconds and then you release and notice the relaxation or the lack of tensing for five seconds. And you do that, you know, through various muscle groups in your body, however you choose. And your body kind of resets and relearns, I'm stressed out right now. Maybe I should release my shoulders. When that happens, it brings you more of an awareness for it.

Lindsay (33:24.648)
Nice.

Mike (33:26.846)
I'd add one thing to the list that in between the tensing and releasing the progress must relaxation and working out stretching stretching is interesting that's cool

Lindsay (33:36.517)
The next thing was yoga and stretching. yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead, tell us about stretching.

Mike (33:44.322)
Again, it's just if you have tense muscles that are sore and strained, being able to release that, especially like a lower back or a shoulder stretch for me, helps me out. So I'll lie on the ground and I'll kind of kick my legs off to one side and really stretch that lower back out and I'll kick it off to the other side, stretch that side of my lower back. That alone...

or just simply moving my neck around in circles back and forth is a lot.

Lindsay (34:15.176)
You know what else I like to do is if you have a a foam roller, I like to lay it long ways along my spine. So from the back of my head down my spine and then open my arms in like a T formation so that they, it opens my chest up. That feels really good and it helps unhunch my shoulders. My shoulders are, I don't think that's a word, but you know what I mean?

Mike (34:26.487)
Yeah.

Mike (34:30.53)
Yes.

Mike (34:33.932)
Yes.

Mike (34:42.346)
Mm-hmm. I know exactly what you mean. That's how I'd say it and that's I like doing the same thing

Lindsay (34:48.915)
So try that guys if you are, if you feel like your chest is constricted. Sometimes I have tightness of breathing, you know, and I think, am I having an asthma attack? Cause I have asthma, some, but it's exercise induced. So I'll be sitting at my desk like can't be having asthma. And it's because my shoulders are hunched. My chest is all tight and constricted. I just need to open it up.

Mike (35:13.878)
Interesting. One thing I'd like to say about breathing, because we went over that too, deep breathing. I think it's one of the most underrated exercises we can do is deep, slow breathing. And the reason for that is without going into the whole thing, but a brief scientific explanation is that when we are tense or we stressed out, we start to go into the fight or flight mode.

And that's especially true of people who carry trauma who can be, you know, have that trauma reaction. We start breathing short and shallow. And what starts happening is the blood from our forebrain starts to drain out and go to our arms and legs so we can fight or take flight. And that's why we see people are panicking. They can't think they can't dial 911. They can't they can't do things they normally could do.

Lindsay (36:00.367)
Mike (36:08.204)
because the blood is drained out of that part of the brain. And so when we deep breathe, we engage the parasympathetic nervous system, which helps us rest and digest and helps us to calm. It helps us to think. It helps us to make rational decisions and unstress, you know.

Lindsay (36:12.116)
Hmm.

Mike (36:33.336)
get or if we're overwhelmed come back to the present moment and that's why you see someone's like take a deep breath because it's literally returning blood to that part of our body so we can make better decisions and kind of recognize that there's not necessarily a threat in the room right here.

Lindsay (36:41.001)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (36:51.782)
Okay, that totally is, I mean, it's super interesting, did not know that at all, but it makes sense. Definitely, definitely can understand and relate to how that happens. Feeling so stressed and not really being able to think things through. I like the, that I don't know what it's called necessarily, but it's the four, four, four, four, four breaths of.

Methods of breathing box breathing. Yeah, breathing for four or six. I do six a lot and then hold for six and then breathe out for six and then hold for six or four, depending on whatever you. Yes, that I feel like works for me because it gives me a little something to do. I can engage as my brain too, because I'm counting and holding and counting. And it gives me that breath as well.

Mike (37:30.749)
Yeah.

Mike (37:39.875)
Yeah.

Mike (37:43.97)
Yeah, and I mentioned that and I'm glad you mentioned that too, because I think when, if you don't know that it's physiologically changing us, then when someone tells you to take a deep breath, it can feel kind of either patronizing or just like, why am I doing this? Why are you telling me to do this? But once you know it, it changes your body's chemistry really for, for better than

Lindsay (38:08.148)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (38:12.584)
more people be apt like, okay, that's that makes sense. I'll do that.

Lindsay (38:17.382)
Yes, instead of it sounding like patronizing when someone tells you to do it or else new agey.

Mike (38:24.48)
Yeah exactly. Take a breath, align your chakras and right people are like I don't subscribe to that this is stupid I'm not doing it.

Lindsay (38:34.406)
Right. But how about the blood is drained from your forebrain and you need to get some back there for it to function. That is not new agey. On a sort of a funny side note on that same along that same vein is again with my all the things I learned listening to true crime podcast. One of my favorites will talk about, you know, whether or not this person

Mike (38:38.668)
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Lindsay (39:03.36)
guilty in advance, know, of them, like what they're doing and whatever. And one of the things that they talk about is, you know, for example, a husband finds his wife murdered and calls 911. If you hear a 911 call of someone who genuinely did not murder their wife, someone else murdered their wife, the way that they are on the phone is like you're talking about. They can't, they can barely

Mike (39:05.335)
Hmm

Mike (39:26.04)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (39:33.214)
get the words out, they're very panicked. It takes the operator a while to even figure out sometimes what's happening. They essentially will throw the address out there and that's about all they can get out. Someone who's murdered their wife and is trying to act like they didn't murder their wife, a lot of times starts laying down their alibi. I just came home from work.

Mike (39:40.984)
What's happening, yeah.

Mike (39:49.038)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (39:58.542)
Lindsay (40:01.084)
And I this that I was five minutes late. can't believe I was late. I should have been here. No, no, because you have all that blood in your forebrain right now, you know, because they're not actually panicked. And so one of the shows played two different side by side. they're like, now these are different people and people don't react to stress the same way across the board. But one was very clearly not panicked and he was just saying all of the things, all of them.

Mike (40:10.2)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:21.718)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (40:27.864)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (40:31.068)
And the other one was just like, get here, get here, get here kind of thing. So I think that that explains that too, why that would exist. OK, let's see what else we have. well, for time management, it's like prioritize tasks. And set realistic goals, learn to say no, connect with others.

Mike (40:33.74)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike (40:42.595)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (40:53.677)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsay (41:02.676)
I would prioritize tasks and not be late if I could. One thing I am doing with the time management that seems to be helping is I set an abundance of alarms. let's say I need to leave and actually work this weekend. I need to leave at 9 a.m. to get somewhere and.

Mike (41:20.664)
Hmm.

Lindsay (41:29.94)
I need to leave at 9 a.m. because it was the pumpkin festival in Half Moon Bay this weekend. And I need to be somewhere at 10 that normally takes me, you know, 30 minutes or something. And I thought, if I leave on time, I'll be able to get there on time no matter what. What kind of pumpkin fuckery is happening? I set an alarm for 830, 845, 9 o'clock. And at 830, I was like,

Mike (41:33.755)
yeah, it gets crowded.

Lindsay (41:59.636)
830 is the get up and start doing stuff time, 845 is the like you didn't get up and start doing stuff to get ready. For real, for real. And then the night and I was out of the door by like nine three. And then I got to where I needed to be 15 minutes or so early. And it was like. I didn't need to be an ass during traffic like get the fuck out of here. All these people, I'm local, I need to get through, blah, blah, blah.

Mike (42:07.49)
the for reals for reals alarm.

Mike (42:13.678)
Nice.

Mike (42:29.772)
Yeah.

Lindsay (42:30.376)
So that there are some strategies that you can use. then shortly after I did that, I saw an ADHD meme on Instagram and it showed like 15 alarms set on an iPhone, just one after other. And it was like how I can get stuff done. This is good. Connect with others or join a support group.

Mike (42:47.843)
it's so good. It's so good.

Lindsay (42:57.928)
That's something that I feel like.

changed during the pandemic for me and not necessarily for the better. I'm working on it now, but I was always very socially active and connected with others all the time, a lot, like face to face. And I know you had some changes too. Is that one of the things, the disconnect, or what happened for you?

Mike (43:16.94)
Yeah.

Mike (43:22.701)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (43:30.988)
I think, you know, the tendency to isolate has been a long standing thing for me. So I would set things up socially that I have to do to mitigate that risk. And then the pandemic was almost an excuse like, well, I can't meet up with anybody now. So crawl further into the cave of isolation.

Lindsay (43:59.518)
Yes.

Mike (44:00.672)
And yeah, I'd say I'm most of the way back out.

Lindsay (44:04.852)
Good, nice. Do you still then still want to have to set up situations so you can kind of get out there?

Mike (44:15.99)
I I have a lot of it through my work now that people, you know, were coming back in person. And then I have a lot of it through my kids, through going to their activities and sports. So yeah, I don't need to necessarily set things up as much, but to actually have like deep personal connection with people, yeah, I have to be intentional about that.

Lindsay (44:30.851)
huh, that's good.

Lindsay (44:42.42)
Well, don't you have like hunting and fishing friends or do you? Yeah, yeah. That's, I'm getting a lot of mine through, well, I'm going back to work two days. I went back to work in the office two days a week. It's just my choice. There's no requirement, but just to be around people, but also back really riding with people again and doing, you know, doing those things to kind of get out there.

Mike (44:45.866)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (44:58.786)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lindsay (45:11.068)
On the other hand, my partner who was very much like an extreme version of you, he never wanted to connect with people. He connects with me and that's what he feels is sufficient. And he was so happy during the pandemic. Never seen him so happy.

Mike (45:23.266)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (45:29.068)
Yeah.

Lindsay (45:30.9)
because he loved the mask because he couldn't even even when he went out, he was like, I essentially don't have to connect with you because there's a mask. I don't even have to see your face. You can't see my face. You will say occasionally like, wish they'd bring back those masks. Like that's something you might want to work on with your therapist. It's not a normal human response. he was so happy. Yeah.

Mike (45:43.66)
Hahaha.

Mike (45:49.527)
Yeah.

Mike (45:53.058)
That's funny. Man, I wish they'd lock us down again or like close down stores.

Lindsay (45:59.218)
He was so happy when he had to, he could ride by himself, but he couldn't talk to anybody other than me. He was, he thrived during the pandemic. and then in gage and enjoyable activities, hobbies, interests, which you and I both do, especially around the physical stuff, but other things too, and then find a creative outlet in which we can end with. And that is what this podcast is for me is the creative outlet.

Mike (46:19.33)
Mm-hmm.

Mike (46:27.064)
Yes. Me too, Lindsey.

Lindsay (46:30.201)
Yeah, I need something like this because my work lacks creativity. It needs to. You don't need to be in a creative account. It's not what anybody wants. know, like I'm going to put these numbers here because they look good in this column. But but I need that creative outlet. And when we took that, I don't know how long we take off. Eighteen months, maybe 15 months. Yeah, it was too long. I definitely missed that.

Mike (46:41.611)
Yeah, exactly.

Mike (46:54.012)
Too long.

Lindsay (46:57.588)
because I didn't really have a replacement for it. I did puzzles, but that's not connect. That was a solo thing, you So I appreciate you being willing to reboot with me because it's definitely making a difference in my life. Yeah, I think I told you this, but I don't think I said it on here, which is I wear, I've got a pixel watch, but I also have the aura ring. So both things tell me my heart rate and.

Mike (47:05.378)
Yeah.

Mike (47:10.582)
This is awesome.

Mike (47:23.127)
Mmm.

Lindsay (47:26.224)
I can see when we record, can literally see on the graph my heart rate and then the stress level that they're calculating. They chart it and I can see it going down and both of them chart it going down, which is pretty amazing. Yeah, and then about half an hour later you see the giant leap up when I log into work. It's like, well, that was nice. It was short-lived, but it was nice. well, do you have anything else you want to talk about with stress?

Mike (47:39.726)
That's cool. That's really cool.

Mike (47:45.666)
Hehehehehe

Mike (47:56.578)
No, I think, you know, comes back to the basics. Like we know this stuff, but are we doing it? And I'd say, if there's something on this list that you haven't tried out before, give it a shot, whether it's, relaxing and stretching, deep breathing, perhaps eating a different food source or, or getting some more sleep.

Lindsay (48:20.552)
Yeah, kids are up. want some breakfast. I can hear them in the background like, OK, dad, feed us. Yeah. All right. Well, everybody, think that's it for this week. And thanks for listening and thanks for spreading the word about this podcast. And you can always hit us up on our website and let us know if you have a particular topic that you want us to talk about or just want to share anything. All righty. Bye.

Mike (48:49.634)
Bye.