ADHD

In this episode of the Ginger and Chocolate podcast, hosts Mike and Lindsay share their personal experiences with mental health, specifically focusing on bipolar disorder and ADHD. They discuss the importance of medication, therapy, and lifestyle changes in managing these conditions. The conversation also addresses common misconceptions about ADHD, the impact of hyperfocus, and the significance of seeking professional help for mental health issues. Through their candid dialogue, they aim to normalize discussions around mental health and encourage listeners to reach out for support.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates

03:03 Mental Health Journeys: Bipolar and ADHD

06:24 Understanding ADHD: Symptoms and Misconceptions

09:16 The Impact of ADHD on Daily Life

12:09 Therapeutic Approaches for ADHD

15:05 Coping Strategies and Lifestyle Changes

18:05 Hyperfocus: A Double-Edged Sword

21:11 Navigating Life with ADHD and Bipolar Disorder

24:20 The Importance of Diagnosis and Treatment

27:17 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

37:53 GNC Outro.wav

Keywords

mental health, ADHD, bipolar disorder, therapy, treatment, hyperfocus, self-esteem, diagnosis, coping strategies, lifestyle changes

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Transcript

Mike (00:01.426)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co -host Mike and I'm here with my co -host Lindsay. Lindsay, how you doing?

Lindsay (00:09.434)
I'm doing pretty well. It's early Monday morning and I'm excited for the week except for that part where I have to go to work but everything else is exciting. yeah, I had a pretty good weekend. How about yourself?

Mike (00:14.291)
Yep.

Mike (00:24.306)
I had a pretty standard weekend. It had kids' birthday parties and kids' sports. So a lot of fun. A lot of fun. I've really enjoyed going to watch my kids play sports and especially getting to know the game of soccer. I didn't really know it until my daughter started playing. And I used to think soccer was boring, but I really enjoy it now. So that's been fun.

Lindsay (00:49.358)
It's low scoring type of game, so it can be a little like 45 minutes with zero goals, but it is fun. I had me. Yeah, I did. had a little, I guess we'll call it a spa day. I went and got my nails done, yay. And then went to the tattoo parlor and got a couple of new tattoos.

Mike (00:51.335)
Yeah.

Mike (00:58.396)
Yeah, you had quite the weekends. Yeah.

Mike (01:13.714)
Yes, yes, saw those pictures. They look really good. I'm happy for you.

Lindsay (01:19.128)
Thank you, I'm very excited about it. Josh isn't as excited, he's not really a tattoo guy, but I'm like, well, you're gonna have to enjoy them, because they're on my body. It's what it is.

Mike (01:30.386)
Here we are. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:37.046)
All right, well, Mike, tell me one thing or tell the listeners one thing about yourself that we might not know.

Mike (01:45.35)
Okay, I will tell the listeners that I have been taking medication for bipolar two for the last five years, I think, think maybe some more on there. And it's really helped me avoid the low lows and some of the hypomanic or kind of high highs where things a little, little,

agitated a little crazy. So I've really appreciated being on those meds.

Lindsay (02:18.894)
Well, we're twinsies because I too got on meds in 2019 for bipolar two and also for an additional fun little thing is that I got on meds at the same time for ADHD. Turns out I have both of those things and combined they were making life a little bit just say challenging is a good word.

Mike (02:46.406)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay (02:48.728)
Josh likes to call it bat shit crazy, but I'm like, let's make it a little less harsh. yeah, so the bipolar two thing definitely has helped just even out the ups and downs and I appreciate that. And when I started taking those meds, it really did sort of shine a light on the ADHD things that I've been just sort of working around or trying to.

Mike (02:51.89)
you

Lindsay (03:17.356)
you know, muscle through my whole life. Yeah, so that's a little something about my meds.

Mike (03:19.908)
Yeah.

Mike (03:24.56)
It's interesting for me to look back on my life and think, that was affected by some mental health conditions and not just me being a bad person or me being out of control. So it's interesting to kind of to look back and say like, wow, you kind of just had a muscle through it before I knew it was a thing that was diagnosable and treatable.

Lindsay (03:35.522)
Right.

Lindsay (03:51.847)
I bet we're not alone in that. I'm sure, you know, a lot of people have mental health issues and may not know that they have stuff and, or they have an idea, but they feel shame about it. And I know that's one of the reasons you and I wanted to have this podcast is to have frank and honest conversations about mental health challenges and try to normalize things like bipolar two.

ADHD so that people can actually just reach out and get the help that they need.

Mike (04:23.676)
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important to mention that these diagnoses that we're talking about were given by a qualified and licensed mental health provider and not my own summation of what I had by watching a TikTok video. All right.

Lindsay (04:47.161)
100%. With ADHD, there are lots of really, really good memes out there that are hilarious. And if you have ADHD, you will understand and get them. But some of those symptoms could be something other than ADHD. So you don't want to necessarily look at memes and be like, I have ADHD from memes. Definitely talk with a doctor if you think you have.

an issue and they will get you on the right track.

Mike (05:16.37)
Yeah, exactly. Just like everything you experience that is difficult is not necessarily a trauma. Being distracted like more of us are today with, you know, hyper focus on our mobile devices and social media does not necessarily mean you have ADHD, but some of us do. And it's important to, if you have questions, to talk to somebody who's qualified to help you with that.

Lindsay (05:46.894)
100 % and that leads us to our topic today which just so happens to be ADHD. so I know what it is because I have it and I know how it presents for me but just so that people can have like a general definition because I think people think of.

the hyperactivity disorder as being something where you're running around crazy. And so I actually do do that sometimes, but typically that's not related to, I mean, I'm not just doing it I'm hyper. It's more like, it's more of a, in my case, an impulse control thing is the hyperactivity. just will do stuff, you know? So.

Mike (06:17.448)
Mm

Lindsay (06:37.688)
that image of like a child who can't sit still in the seat. That child may have ADHD, but as an adult, it may not look quite the same. Yeah, so it just says adult ADHD is a neurodevelopmental, by the way, I just asked Gemini AI what it is. It's characterized by a combination of persistent problems, such as difficulty paying attention,

Mike (06:55.804)
Yeah.

Lindsay (07:07.566)
hyperactivity, so I do think there are adults that behave the same as children. I'm just not one of them. Impulsive behavior, check, I have that. If I had all the money that I spent impulsively signing up for endurance events in my pocket, I'd probably have enough to redo, to do the kitchen remodel that I wanted to.

Mike (07:30.876)
Hmm.

Mike (07:36.552)
here.

Lindsay (07:37.366)
I'm like, that looks good. Ding, that looks good. Ding. And then I'm like, yeah, who cares that I am having ankle surgery? It'll be fine. So it says for adult ADHD, the origin is actually in their childhood and it may not be diagnosed until adulthood. So that's my experience. But looking back, you know, first of all,

I was in grade school in the seventies, so we didn't have this ADHD. They were just like, sit the fuck down and shut up. That's what we had. And because I have a fairly smart brain and what happened instead of giving me treated for ADHD is that I skipped fifth grade. They just tried to overload me with work because I would finish mine really quickly and then I would

Mike (08:10.64)
No, it wasn't a thing.

Mike (08:33.054)
Hmm.

Lindsay (08:35.182)
cruise around the classroom and help everybody else who hadn't done theirs. And they're like, this kid who can't do this needs to learn how to do this. They don't need you to do it for them. And so that was the way of, that's how I got treated when I was a child. so just out of curiosity, do you experience difficulty paying attention or impulsive behavior yourself without ADHD?

Mike (08:44.903)
Yeah.

Mike (09:04.49)
impulsive behavior sometimes, but, in terms of like spending money, maybe like I relate to that, or impulsive eating. but paying attention generally been able to do that. I don't know. There's some, guess it depends if, if I'm, if it's a meeting where I'm, I'm my mind will definitely wander.

Lindsay (09:10.406)
Mm

Lindsay (09:15.127)
Yeah.

Mike (09:33.084)
and have a hard time doing that. So there's some maybe traits, but I don't think it's at the point where after being, after being, what do call it? Assessed by a psychiatrist, I was never given that diagnosis. So.

Lindsay (09:53.09)
Yeah, I just wonder, because I've been living with this my whole life, I wonder kind of what it's like for non ADHD people if they get distracted, if they restless, if they get impulsive. Because I feel like although ADHD is a thing, people are distracted that don't have it. They can't act impulsively that also don't have it.

Mike (10:16.456)
Mm

Mike (10:20.83)
Yeah, and I think, you know, the context of the time, we're finding more people that are distracted because we have so many things grab in our attention, you know, that last only a few seconds or less than a minute. So the attention span, I know, has gone down over the last several years, I think probably since 2007, since we all have smartphones.

Lindsay (10:48.662)
Right, right. And you know, I don't have a lot of attention span to give. So when you add in now social media and all of those things, I think it definitely makes it makes it challenging for people who are already dealing with ADHD. So some of the treatments

Mike (10:55.248)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay (11:12.846)
for ADHD that says there's no cure. It can be managed effectively. So a common approach is a medication. Stimulants and non -stimulants can help improve focus, attention, et cetera. And I'm somebody who uses the non -stimulant probably because, I mean, for me, I'm also sober. I got a lot going on, triple threat. Sober bipolar two, ADHD.

Mike (11:37.299)
You

Lindsay (11:42.85)
To be honest, think the drinking helped with the other two. You know what I mean? It didn't really. Yeah. You can relate to drinking as a tool, right?

Mike (11:47.954)
Yeah, yeah, Captain Obey.

Mike (11:57.116)
Yes, yes I can and there were some good things but the side effects far outweigh the benefits. Yeah.

Lindsay (12:04.738)
way outweighed the benefits, way outweighed. But it definitely, some of the just angst from trying to muscle through some of this stuff was lessened in that moment while I drank. Then shortly after I drank, like the next day or later that evening, it did more harm than it did a good initially. Okay, so medication is one option.

Mike (12:18.472)
Mm

Mike (12:28.872)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (12:33.078)
And another option is therapy, which I think you should have if you're having mental health issues. mean, honestly, I haven't really met a person that couldn't benefit from therapy, have you?

Mike (12:49.722)
I I've met a few that came in or just wanted to look at it. And I said, you know, I think you're actually doing all right. I think just the fact that you asked about it means you're inquisitive. Because from my context, it's a little different. Talking to people professionally, I do mental health.

I'll see people come in and who are veterans who come back from a combat zone or experience military sexual trauma. But some people after the military service are doing all right. And we're just kind of inquisitive about it. More often the case is that people come in after it's apparent to everybody and then apparent to them that they need it. talking to somebody, I think.

Lindsay (13:26.573)
Hmm.

Lindsay (13:35.16)
Mm

Mike (13:41.656)
helps having having someone to talk to you know right

Lindsay (13:45.558)
Right. I guess that's kind of what I mean. Everyone I know, even people who don't have any mental health issues could use a sounding board because they're, you know, the idea that a human being would not have challenges that they could work through better.

by bouncing them off someone else or just at least having someone there to listen and support them, think is.

Mike (14:13.114)
Yeah, I think in general when people are without someone to talk to on a regular basis, you can start just doing kind of weird stuff. whereas a friend could be like, Hey, that's a little weird. Why don't we tone that down? Right?

Lindsay (14:28.908)
Right. Yes, In AA, have not really a saying, but people say something about, know, my brain is a dangerous place. I don't go there alone. Just meaning, you know, sometimes we can use external feedback. That's yeah, yeah.

Mike (14:44.286)
Hmm.

Lindsay (14:53.818)
In the case of someone with ADHD, you can have cognitive behavioral therapy. And so that's keep teaches like coping strategies and time management skills and things like that. Do you guys use the cognitive behavioral therapy and you do? Okay.

Mike (15:07.942)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. So generally people in my field where I'm working use either cognitive behavioral therapy or acceptance commitment therapy. know, maybe in a future show we could go into the differences between them. But yeah, essentially from what I know about cognitive behavioral therapy, it's essentially just checking your thoughts.

Lindsay (15:23.788)
Yeah, that would be awesome.

Mike (15:34.364)
Like, okay, a lot of thoughts go unchecked or assumptions we make go unchecked. And sometimes there's thoughts with or faulty beliefs. You know, like if I sign up for this thing, everybody's going to laugh at me. Okay, well, let's check that thought out.

Lindsay (15:38.168)
Mm

Lindsay (15:55.01)
Right, right. That makes sense. I don't have cognitive behavioral therapy for my own ADHD, but I have not formally, but I have worked with my therapist on, you know, what tools can I use for time management, things like that. One of the very common memes that's funny about ADHD is probably not funny to the people in their lives who are trying to get somewhere on time, but

Mike (16:24.22)
Yeah.

Lindsay (16:25.006)
is just that we don't generally do something until it's like imperative. So if we need to leave in five minutes from now, 6 .45, we're going to leave at 6 .39. I'm starting to get ready. know, Josh has been ready for a half an hour because he gets ready early in preparation to leave on time. And he starts giving me a countdown. Hey, we're leaving in 15 minutes.

Mike (16:42.429)
Yeah.

Lindsay (16:54.328)
And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then at six minutes before we're supposed to leave, I'm like, ooh, I need to change clothes. I need to put some makeup on. I need to do, like ridiculous. And I've just been in my house, like doing whatever, anything. so the tools that my therapist and I have worked on is just sort of.

Mike (17:02.339)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Mike (17:09.96)
Mm

Lindsay (17:21.165)
blocking out time, like I'm going to do this for 20 minutes, then I'm going to stop, then I'm going to do this so that I can in advance attempt to not wait until the last minute. But it's just one of the features of ADHD is that we do everything at the last minute. So we will do like four hours of work in 30 hours, you know, take just slow and then we'll do the other, you know,

Mike (17:46.224)
Mm

Lindsay (17:50.126)
20 hours of work we have to do in the last like eight hours of the week. We can work really fast, which is kind of a cool thing. We get very hyper -focused. We can work really fast, but it would be nice to start getting ready 15, 20 minutes before I'm supposed to go somewhere.

Mike (17:53.863)
Yeah.

Mike (18:10.75)
Yeah, yeah, you be able to budget your time a little differently. It's so interesting because I forget where I read this, they talk about ADHD as less of a mental health challenge and more of a fact that it doesn't fit in with industrialized or post -industrial societies and in terms of

You know, we have to be focused at a single task for a long time. Whereas back in hunter gatherer days, people needed their attention all over the place to notice the different sound or lack of sound of the birds, meaning there's other people or a predator nearby. And just the ability to make use of the total environment. So...

their ADHD, what we call that now, might be more of a boon than a harm.

Lindsay (19:17.814)
That makes sense. I like that. I like that way of looking at it because it is different than it does feel different than my other mental health challenges. I think it probably gets grouped in there to a certain degree. It's a behavioral thing because meds is one of the treatments, you know. But you're right. It isn't the same as like a bipolar or something like that. It definitely has a different feel to it.

Mike (19:43.08)
Yeah. Yes.

Lindsay (19:47.156)
And you can be a high functioning person with ADHD. It's just that the way that you operate is different from the way your average person operates. And one of those things is sort of the deadline informs how we're going to behave. There's just, is almost impossible. It's so hard to address something.

Mike (19:57.707)
Mm

Mike (20:08.914)
Right.

Lindsay (20:14.912)
in advance of a deadline, like in a timely manner. There's just no motivation to do it. It's like, I'll do that later. I'm gonna do all these other things that my brain just came up with first. And then when it's looming and it's like, if you don't start right this second, you will absolutely under no circumstances make that deadline. Then it's like action time.

Mike (20:28.766)
Mm

Mike (20:42.52)
Go.

Lindsay (20:44.552)
and get it done. And you know, I'm an accountant, so that's not the best way to be an accountant. But I get all my work done the same as my peers. It's just in a different, you it's like on Friday afternoon at two, instead of throughout the week. So, oops, I just closed that. Didn't mean to do that. So medication is one thing. The cognitive behavioral therapy is one thing. It says lifestyle changes.

Mike (20:50.845)
Yeah.

Mike (20:59.39)
Mm

Lindsay (21:12.556)
regular exercise, healthy diet, adequate sleep, all of the things that we know that help a mental health issue will help a little bit with ADHD.

Mike (21:23.912)
Yeah, I can see it, especially with the exercise. If someone is feeling hyperactive, you can get that out in the gym or out on the road or in the pool, however you're working out.

Lindsay (21:27.343)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (21:33.058)
Mm

Lindsay (21:39.788)
Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to get out and shake all that stuff out of the body before you have to sit. I think that's true for anybody though. You know, some people actually not true. They love to just sit, but most people, think it's nice to get out there and move your body before you sit. And, there's this other facet to ADHD. This is the other side of the coin, which is called hyper focus and

Mike (21:46.632)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Lindsay (22:08.31)
we can get very hyper -focused on one thing, like, and it may have nothing to do, what I found is a lot of the times it has nothing to do with anything that we need to do. It's something that we're interested in, you know, so I'm interested in podcasts, so I can listen to every audio book, I can read every book, I can go online, can research, like, I can do an immense amount of learning around podcasts.

And it's not just because I like it. it is like I'm interested in it. As soon as my brain's interested in something, we can go down this just rabbit hole of information and take we can digest a lot of information. So if you can harness that in your life for for good, not evil, you can get pretty far in certain things. So I think when I first got into triathlon, I got very hyper focused on it.

Mike (22:59.164)
Yeah.

Mike (23:05.884)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay (23:06.306)
You know, and so it's like, let me read everything. Let me, let me go online and look at all the stuff. Let me do every last thing the coach says to do. Let me look at the data. Let me try all of those things. When ADHD people are done with that hyper focus, we're done. It's like, I'm, you know, I can still do triathlon, but I'm not going to be like, I mean, triathlon magazine, triathlete magazine, or I guess it's called triathlon shows up and I'm like,

Mike (23:25.715)
Yeah.

Lindsay (23:36.236)
Yeah, you know.

Mike (23:38.334)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that.

Lindsay (23:41.23)
Do you have things like that where you get into something, not maybe not the hyper focus, but.

Mike (23:47.468)
yeah. yeah. Well, I'm starting to feel a little worried because these things are describing me. So I don't know if I want to stay ignorant for a while or because the thing is like, I don't want it to be like what they call medical student disease or syndrome where you like read about something. You're like, that's me. I have a brain tumor or like whatever it is. Right.

Lindsay (24:08.75)
Yeah. 100%.

Mike (24:12.104)
But I'll do that. Yeah, I'll get hyper focused on something and be preoccupied with it, which is a lower level than being obsessed with it, but was commonly known as so. Triathlon was like that for a while. And now I'm more preoccupied with hunting and fishing. I mean, stratholing is still part of my life, but not the...

Lindsay (24:18.136)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (24:22.359)
Yeah.

Lindsay (24:35.107)
Mmm.

Mike (24:39.998)
thing I talk about all the time, you know, like I'm trying to evangelize about it. And before that, it was probably endurance events like go rock and CrossFit, stuff like that.

Lindsay (24:44.12)
Right, right.

Lindsay (24:54.417)
I think.

Lindsay (24:58.479)
I, well, let me put it this way. I'm on my same team, but I hardly show up, but I do have, I like love the people on there. So I told a friend the other day, I was like, I'm just paying monthly to have friends because I want to be able to show up and see them when I want to see them. But it's like, there you are. And there are people on that team that for decades have been, you know, singularly.

Mike (25:05.672)
Mm

Mike (25:09.688)
That's good. I know where to find you guys.

Lindsay (25:25.046)
And they're not like obsessive. just, they just do the things and they just go to the races and they do really well because they've been doing all the things in order and just continuously participating. And I'm like squirrel up down. I'm going to, Ironman, I'll train for it. Great. Then I do nothing. Then I come back for a little tiny bit lip. And then I go back, you know, it's really all over the place, which is okay. It's not going to get me the results that I want to have.

Mike (25:28.552)
Mm

Mike (25:48.956)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (25:54.74)
when I'm into it. You know what I mean? I'm like, I want to do really well. Well, you haven't done anything for six months. So.

Mike (25:57.692)
Right.

Mike (26:02.076)
Yeah, well, the interesting thing too is that, you might be experiencing, you know, both the symptoms of bipolar and ADHD. And sometimes they get conflated, like which are from which I couldn't tell you. I don't know, but I'm, the same way in terms of being really up and then being really just nothing blah. And so I understand the bursts of like,

Lindsay (26:27.363)
Yeah.

Mike (26:31.912)
bursts or waves of kind of motivation and energy for sure.

Lindsay (26:36.862)
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty. I mean, I have to say it makes life fun to a certain degree. That sounds crazy, You know, having these little blips where I get to go just like learn stuff and do things and it's kind of fun as long as I don't get tip over to where I'm neglecting, you know, my health, my family, my work, all that stuff. And the meds helped me. Definitely.

Mike (26:43.4)
Yeah.

Lindsay (27:05.3)
not do that. So I'm grateful for that. Curious about your, not on the topic of ADHD, but on the topic of your bipolar too. How does it, do you feel like you have like a light version of mania or, and then kind of flat or how does that present for you?

Mike (27:06.91)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (27:23.89)
Mm

Yeah. So in the clinical world, they call it hypomania, which is a little less than the full on manic episode. Thank goodness. Thank, I'm just so thankful for that, that it doesn't go full manic where I'm not, you know, spending lots of money or just doing risky things or, you know, living on the edge for, you know, over a week at a time. It's more like, like, just

Impulsive stuff like you know like I get really up and I'd want to either probably spend money on bullshit you know that I didn't need or Just look at fun events to go to or something stuff that was total distraction to my normal life Just seeking to like scratch an itch I think what it was

Lindsay (28:13.09)
Mm

Lindsay (28:19.37)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way of putting that. Hmm. You know, no, go ahead.

Mike (28:23.922)
Yeah. So.

and the rest of the time, a lot of the time, I should say not the rest, but a lot of the time I just be down, really down. So it was like very low with some kind of blips of like up, you know, so to overshoot the market a little too far up and then go back to when, you know, just kind of blah.

Lindsay (28:48.108)
Yeah, and like you said, that can translate to these feelings of negative self -worth and things like that. They say ADHD in adults has that component too of the trials in and of themselves of having ADHD can cause really low self -esteem.

Mike (28:56.72)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike (29:17.041)
Mm

Lindsay (29:17.454)
that you're just sort of like, can't I just get myself to do this thing? you know, I must be lazy. It's like, no, you're not lazy, because then you do all of the thing on time. But yeah.

Mike (29:29.266)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that self -less stuff worth, I grew up with that thinking like, I'm always depressed about things and other people don't seem to be as sad about them. You know, I remember one friend saying like, why do you always act like you have such a hard life? You're always so bummed out about things. And like, that's not attractive quality to have.

Lindsay (29:56.068)
Yeah.

Mike (29:56.498)
Like maybe I'm just a complainer. Maybe I just can't do anything. But then I would have, you know, bursts of energy where I do, you know, great things, you know, that required a lot of focus, attention, energy. So it was confusing.

very confusing and what helped me was getting a diagnosis that said like, this is what's happening. It's not that you're a bad person. This is what's happening. It's, it's things that are going on physiologically inside your body that would you do them if you had control over it? no, you probably wouldn't cause having too much energy or being depressed all the time, except for that doesn't sound fun. So it doesn't sound like a choice.

Lindsay (30:39.638)
Right, How do... So you weren't, you were not diagnosed, if you were only diagnosed five years ago or around there, you were not diagnosed when you went into the Marines.

Mike (30:41.054)
So that helps.

Mike (30:52.016)
No, no. And that's why I'm kind of glad I was thinking about this, Lindsay. I was kind of glad I didn't get diagnosed because if I had that diagnosis, I would have not have been able to go into the Marine Corps. And who knows what my life would look like? I don't know. Maybe it would have been better, but I'm really proud of my service. really glad I got to go in. So I'm thankful, I guess, for that reason I didn't have that diagnosis.

Yeah, it's a weird way of looking at it.

Lindsay (31:19.534)
Are you saying that because you feel like you... Is it because you joined the military at a time where you were feeling quite good about everything or did you join the military because you were kind of blah and didn't know where to go or how did... When you say not being diagnosed means that you were able to go into the military, what do you mean?

Mike (31:47.51)
so if you have, there's a slew of different mental health diagnoses that if you have a pre -existing condition, you can't go into the military, either physical or mental. And so the fact that I had not had anything diagnosed meant that that would not be a barrier for me to get in.

Lindsay (31:58.311)
got it, okay, okay.

Lindsay (32:09.954)
Hmm, okay, that's good. That makes sense. That makes sense. Military and pilots. I know pilots are not allowed to. I have someone I know who was like, basically saying they weren't gonna go to get help because they wanted to be a pilot. And I was like, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike (32:15.505)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mike (32:29.65)
Yeah, you don't want to find the answers and have that written down on paper, right? Stuff. It's, it's, it is tough choice. And then I guess one would have to weigh how is your life working, right? If you're able to manage the stuff and know it, having a diagnosis when it comes down to it is just an agreement that a bunch of psychiatrists and psychologists came up with of like, these are the things and this is what we're going to call it. If they have all these things.

Lindsay (32:43.906)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (32:58.502)
It's just an agreement between people. There's right. for, most, most mental health diagnoses, I mean, there are some that you can be shown of like, there's, this is how the chemicals in your body are affected. But most of them are just agreements between people. if you, the diagnosis necessarily isn't the important thing, but knowing how to navigate the conditions you're living under is.

Lindsay (33:00.716)
Yeah. Huh.

Lindsay (33:26.324)
Agreed, agreed. I will say this one person who didn't want the diagnosis so they could be a pilot. I was like, now what, which airline are you working for? Because I'm not signing up for the flight with that because I don't think they were a depressive, but it was like, I think we should know, you know, if you like, if you have issues, I think for a job like that. But I did want to mention, you know, we've I think we talked about it a little bit on here.

Mike (33:36.327)
here.

Lindsay (33:56.152)
but we have a friend who does have bipolar one and it's a completely different, it's interesting because they're like, there are things that cause them to be somewhat similar, I guess that make them bipolar one and two, but they're so different. They're vastly different. And you know, I miss my friend and this person is as of now, you know, just gone and it's been

Mike (34:10.824)
Mm

Yeah, vastly different.

Lindsay (34:26.292)
over a year, the mania has lasted over a year, which is an amazing long period of time. I being someone who has the bipolar to I have these little waves like we talked about like, mine kind of present as like doing everything feeling kind of anxiety about needing to do all this stuff and then flat nothingness, you know. But neither up nor down is so

Mike (34:38.11)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (34:56.128)
intense that I can't continue to carry on my life. You know, I can still engage in my relationships and my work and whatever.

Mike (35:00.579)
Yeah.

Lindsay (35:07.627)
It's more like I signed up for the event, signed up for the Iron Man, and now I'm not going to do the Iron Man. That's basically what it's like. And I'm just not going to even train, but it's not going to, you know, not going to kill me. But, this friend. So I just didn't know that there was a form of bipolar that could just stay a certain way. could just stay manic, essentially and delusional. And, and so.

Mike (35:29.63)
Mm

Mike (35:36.455)
Yeah.

Lindsay (35:39.641)
I'm just so sad about it and I just wish, you I have a little bit of anger at the disease because in this case, the person's not going to get better unless they get the help they need. But as with a lot of mental illness, tells, you know, their own brain is telling them they don't need help.

Mike (35:46.856)
Mm

Mike (35:59.806)
that's the tough part about it, right? And it's the same in that way. It's similar to, you know, the addictions and that, you know, like if you, if your brain is telling you, no, everybody else has the problem, then, you know, then you don't have the impetus to, seek out help or change. And, know, they're, two different things, but they share that similarity, but it's just, it's just hard. I think if I had a message,

Lindsay (36:22.616)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (36:30.581)
to our listeners it would be if you have questions or if things are happening that you don't understand and there's patterns whether they're lifelong or recent talk to a qualified mental health provider you know a psychologist psychiatrist in most cases and just just ask the question just

There might be nothing. It might be a phase of your life and that might be what's going on, but it's worth it because it doesn't affect just us. It affects our friends and families too.

Lindsay (37:10.744)
think we just got our signal to wrap up. Okay, folks, I think that's it for this week. I know it wasn't a super upbeat. It was a little bit more serious of an episode, but I think it is an important conversation to have. I'm glad that we did it. And I'm glad you guys were here to listen and join us on this. And we will see you next week.

Mike (37:12.956)
Yeah, I think so.

Mike (37:38.622)
All right, everyone, take care.

Lindsay (37:39.832)
Bye.