Captain Stephanie Lincoln Part 2

This week we bring you Part 2 of our interview with Captain Stephanie Lincoln of Fire Team Whiskey Military Fitness, who details her journey of survival in the vast Olympia National Forest. You can read the full story in her book, Born to Be Brave.


Buy the Book: Born to Be Brave

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Transcript

Lindsay (00:00.177)
Huh.

Mike (00:01.645)
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ginger and Chocolate podcast. I'm your co -host Mike along with Lindsay and we got a special guest today, Captain Stephanie Lincoln, back for part two of our two -part episode talking to her this week more about her experience in the Olympic National Forest and her book, Born to Be Brave. So before we get to that, I wanna start off with Lindsay, what was the first concert you ever went to? Can you remember?

Lindsay (00:31.517)
I can remember it was the cure, boys don't cry, in 84 or five. And I had to fight with my mom to go. And I did exactly all of the things that she was worried that I was going to do. Got high, talked to people I probably shouldn't, got lucky because they didn't, know, nothing really bad happened. Kind of don't.

Mike (00:38.029)
Nice.

Mike (00:42.092)
Okay.

Mike (00:52.867)
Nice.

Lindsay (01:00.893)
remember the whole concert, you know, all the things that a budding alcoholic does when we're 15 years old. But love that band and it was a really cool, you know, cool tour and I'm glad I got to go. What about you?

Mike (01:06.882)
you

Mike (01:15.543)
My first concert was not that exciting at all. went and saw Tony Bennett at the Concord Bavillion and I think I was in middle school. I went with my friend and his dad. There was no getting high. There was no talking to anybody cool, but it was...

Lindsay (01:21.189)
Lindsay (01:32.455)
Tony Bennett is not really like, RAAAHHHH, you know, it's not that kind of deal.

Mike (01:35.765)
Yeah, it was a daytime concert for sure. Yeah.

Lindsay (01:39.035)
Awesome. What about you Stephanie?

Steph Lincoln (01:43.531)
Well, it was Steve Perry, his first tour out when he left Journey. So I was 15 and I went with my mom and my aunt, my dad. And it was funny because every time he played one of his new songs, everybody just like sat down and just ignored him. And then, of course, when they banged out the Journey songs, everybody was like, yeah, rockin' out. Yeah, like.

Lindsay (01:52.836)
awesome.

Mike (01:52.984)
Wow.

Lindsay (02:05.881)
you

Steph Lincoln (02:11.915)
So that was his taste of how interested people were in his new music, apparently.

Lindsay (02:19.185)
be hard for the ego, I would think.

Steph Lincoln (02:20.587)
Well, he needed to be taken down a few notches, so it was probably a good lesson for him.

Lindsay (02:24.209)
Yes. Cool. Well, part two. if you guys listen to part one, you heard all about Stephanie's credentials. Do you like Steph or Stephanie better? OK, you heard all about Steph's credentials and why, know, generally speaking, she was out in the woods feeling like she could.

Mike (02:24.568)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (02:41.525)
stuff.

Lindsay (02:52.773)
handle everything and was tromping through. I'll use your words. You said maybe a little bit overconfident. That's you said last week. so, but we didn't get to hear the whole story. So today is all about the story. And we're going to put links in the show notes because there's actually a book out about this. So tell us a little bit about the story. And then I also want to hear the journey about writing a book because that's a pretty big feat in and of itself. So.

Steph Lincoln (03:01.397)
Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (03:17.929)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay (03:19.591)
kind of recap a little bit of where we ended yesterday, last, last episode, maybe.

Steph Lincoln (03:25.023)
Yeah, I think we ended where I was, I realized that I was lost and I was kind of doing all the technical things that you're supposed to do, know, triangulation and figuring out if I could get a cell signal or, you know, getting to high peaks and, you know, wandering around and seeing if I could see anything from where I was and, you know, seeing if I could see a

road or bridge or cars or anything and it was a complete fail. So that took you know to probably a couple of hours for me to do and then you know I just got to a point where I had figured I had tried everything. You know you're the one of the number one rule of being lost right is to don't continue to wander around right. So I kind of established a base of operations and there was this tree actually it's a very large tree and it was

marked by a pink, you know, like trail tape, right? I don't know why it was marked that way, but there it was. So that was my kind of base of operations. And I kind of centered myself from that point, all these activities to try and see if I could figure out how to recover myself and get back to my car or see anything or, you know, see if I could get back on the trail. So all of that was a fail. And I ended up

Mike (04:26.403)
Mm

Steph Lincoln (04:52.583)
sitting my butt down at the base of that tree with the pink marker and getting to the realization that, wow, I'm F'd. I'm sorry, guys, I use explicit language in my book. that's exactly like, I mean, you're not going to not say the F word if you are lost in the Olympic National Forest. I'm sorry. I don't care how like

Mike (05:10.691)
We need to, you can play all of it.

Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (05:20.755)
you know, proper you are religious about it, you're gonna you're gonna say the F word like you're gonna be like, I'm fucked, like royally fucked here. And so it's you know, we all know that sense of panic, right? we're just like, your whole body gets hot and you start sweating, like every pore in your body opens and then your hands start shaking and your legs kind of feel like jelly, right? We all know those feelings. And that like happened to me because I just was like,

Mike (05:22.966)
Yeah.

Lindsay (05:28.167)
Feel free.

Mike (05:44.45)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (05:49.671)
It just hit me like a ton of bricks like boom. is this is happening. Like this is it and I kind of collapsed at the base of that tree and breathe through it put my head between my knees and slowed that process down. You know avoided having a full -on panic attack and and then made the switch. I just it literally was like a light switch. I just went all right.

It is what it is. I'm in survival mode now. And from that point on until I was rescued, I was just in survival mode. I didn't freak out and panic. didn't, I didn't worry, nothing. It was just the mission is to survive and just to do everything I could to do that.

Lindsay (06:45.085)
Did you have just anything with you? I'm sure water and stuff, but did you have food and things that you needed potentially to be out there for? I mean, you're not supposed to be out there for that long. So I'm just wondering if you had things with you.

Steph Lincoln (06:59.679)
Yeah, well, fortunately and unfortunately, that's that is part of the story is I actually even have a list in my book of exactly every single item I was carrying to give you an idea of what I was, you know, what I was prepared for as far as what I had on me. Every hike, I've always done this from the very beginning. Even if I feel like I'm to be out for an hour, I carry pretty much a full pack.

So, you I don't carry a tent and a sleeping bag and all that stuff, but I carry a pretty extensive emergency kit, which includes a water filtration system, about two weeks worth of electrolytes, salt tablets, even a backup plan for that. I have the water purifying tablets, an extensive medical kit with medications, and actually even a field survival wilderness book.

Mike (07:55.448)
Hmm.

Steph Lincoln (07:55.663)
a like a wilderness medicine book, an emergency blanket, I have garbage bags, know, duct tape, lots of like random stuff that's pretty useful if you're out in the woods for a few days. And I did not have any food because I tend to not carry any food if I'm on a shorter hike because I have excellent body fat burning.

with my ability to fast which came in handy out there and I had unfortunately forgot to replace a couple of the clothing items that I usually keep in there. I usually keep like a windbreaker, ring like a little raincoat and you know like a beanie. Just a couple of layers at which I had not had on me at that time which I sorely missed when I needed them but

I improvised and so have a couple of MacGyver moments in my book where I figured it out and was able to use the things that I actually had on me. Like a garbage bag is a great windbreaker slash in a raincoat. I had an emergency fire starter kit with some pre -soaked kindling on me, which came in handy that first night because I was so soaking wet. I was just saturated. was,

I'm in a rainforest guys, like it is humid. And, you know, just all the hiking I did to try and recover myself, my clothes were completely saturated. was soaking wet and it was getting to be late afternoon and you know, the sun was going to start going down and I was at real danger of hypothermia. And that fire starting kit, you know, came in handy not only to dry me out and, you know, keep me from getting hypothermic that night.

but it's also a great tool for emergencies for being seen when people are looking for you.

Lindsay (09:56.977)
Wow, so go ahead, Mike. You look like you're about to ask a question.

Mike (10:01.421)
Yeah, I was going to ask if you could speak to the mental strength you had and what you did to keep your mind occupied, whether it was task based or there's certain mantras or things you said to yourself to avoid slipping into panic.

Steph Lincoln (10:18.857)
Yeah, yeah, that was key. That was really key because I think that if I didn't have that, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do the things that I did to get myself saved. So yeah, I immediately started using mantras, which is strange because I actually had never done that in my entire life. Like it just...

For some reason, it just made sense to me to do it and I did it and I literally said out loud at the beginning of each day and each night before the sun went down, whatever it was, the mantras at the time, I won't get injured today. I will find a road. I will get seen by rescue.

I will find the trail like I just kept repeating and I would say it 10 times each out loud just like with every part of my energy in my soul just like as a certainty these things are definitely going to happen today and I would actually even visualize and really try and feel emotionally in my body how that would feel in that moment when it happened.

Mike (11:42.829)
Hmm.

Steph Lincoln (11:43.697)
And so and that's actually and I've done some reading up since then about manifesting and mantras. And that is actually one of the keys to that. And I didn't know this. I've never been educated about these things. I've never done it before. But I actually intuitively put that into practice. And what's interesting is one of my mantras and I won't do spoiler alert, you know, other than the fact that, hey, spoiler alert, I survived, you know.

Mike (12:11.873)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Steph Lincoln (12:14.015)
But I won't spoiler alert, one of my mantras was actually the exact way I got rescued. And I envisioned that so many times before it actually happened. Which was a weird juxtaposition when it actually happened, because then I thought I was hallucinating. Because I envisioned it so many times and then it was actually happening. And I was like, wait, no, my mind must be playing tricks on me. I must be hallucinating.

Mike (12:21.869)
Wow.

Lindsay (12:22.193)
Wow.

Lindsay (12:28.487)
That's it.

Lindsay (12:41.467)
You

awesome.

Mike (12:45.356)
Now did your mind play tricks on you at all without much silence and not much time?

Steph Lincoln (12:49.507)
God, yes. that's the worst. And I had actually experienced that. I was an endurance racer. did adventure races. I was on the Florida National Guard Adventure Racing Team. And if you've ever been extremely sleep deprived, I mean, I'm talking days. I literally did not sleep for three days. So you actually kind of have pseudo hallucinations or like actual real hallucinations.

So yes, like I thought I heard people, thought I heard cars, I thought I saw homes like built out like in the middle of the woods. I would see some of you like, my God, there's a home out here. Like why would there be a home in the middle of the Olympic National Forest? I don't know. But you know, just the sounds of the water and the wind. Yeah, you really like translate those things, the things that you desperately want to hear.

Mike (13:48.493)
Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (13:48.739)
And after a few times, I kind of got used to just being like, okay, not having a reaction to it anymore because I figured out, okay, none of these things are actually true. I'm just going to ignore it because, and again, that kind of played into me when I first heard the search and rescue team that found me. I thought it was another hallucination and it took me a long time to kind of figure out or like the wind blowing or whatever.

took me a long time. really just like had to sit there for like literally a minute with my eyes closed listening and going, is this real? I don't know. It took me a while. I was like, okay, pretty sure this is real. Okay. Yes, this is real. So yeah, it took a while to figure that out. But yeah, a lot of mind tricks going on out there. A lot of battles going on in here in the mind.

Lindsay (14:42.375)
That's pretty amazing. I relate to the mantra thing, not being lost in the woods, but I do do mantras every morning and with in conjunction with trying to feel what the mantra is about. it really does make, it makes a huge difference in my life anyway, in terms of my outlook. You know, if I start my day, like you're saying, just having that outlook and that feeling in your body of

some sort of positive outcome changes the way my day goes. Not that my day is all perfect, but it just changes the way my day goes in terms of my ability to respond to things, especially things that I don't like. So I'm glad to hear that those are a key skill to have in case I ever get, you know.

lost in the woods or something like that. Let's hope that that's not the thing. yeah. So let me ask you about, so I know that you're at this point in time, you're married, your husband is expecting you to do a hike and come right back, I'm assuming. And I'm assuming you've talked to him a little bit about.

Steph Lincoln (15:40.052)
Yeah.

Lindsay (16:00.239)
what it was like, but I'm just curious if you could share a little bit about what it's like on his side. Like how long does he wait before he realizes, I don't, my wife's not coming here right now.

Steph Lincoln (16:10.919)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. No. Yeah, that's that's a good question. I'm glad you asked about that perspective, Lindsay, because when I began writing my book, I had this idea, right? Because usually when you read about survival stories, right? It's only from that first person perspective, right? It's about the person saying, this is what I went through. This is how I survived.

And there's really never any mention of kind of like the butterfly effect of, you know, the people and in their lives, you know, the partners, the husband, the wife, the children, the friends, the family. And I thought that was an important piece to share because those things were profound and they, you know, had profound. My experience is not about just about me. It's it had a profound effect on the people in my life.

Mike (16:48.451)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (17:06.679)
And so I actually had people in my life write their perspective, like a short, you know, kind of essay about what they went through when I was missing. And those are in my book. So you will see, actually, one of them is from my husband. And yeah, and actually, again, you know, being an experienced hiker, I did all the right things, you know, leading up to it. I always.

Mike (17:11.779)
Hmm.

Steph Lincoln (17:34.955)
give him a screenshot, send him a screenshot of the trail that I'm going to be on from the app that I was using. I always tell him what time to expect me back. I always take a picture of I usually just like what I'm wearing, like the top, you know, he knows what my pack looks like, but usually just like or a description of what I'm wearing. So I did all those things that day. And he said, I mean, within 30 minutes of me not showing up,

Mike (17:58.115)
Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (18:04.491)
of that specific time, because if I'm not going to be there that specific time, there's obviously going to be a really, really crazy reason why. And so he said he got really, really worried about 30 minutes in. And then after an hour, he called the police. He knew something was wrong. And of course, he tried to call my cell phone, nothing. And the police came out and usually, thank goodness,

They won't do anything about it. Local authorities, unless you've been gone for a couple of days, that's kind of the rule. They don't really do anything about it. They're like, okay, well, just call us in a couple of days. But he was so emphatic. And I think this is just kind of the salesman. And he sold them on the fact that, no, something we cannot wait. Like something is wrong. She's definitely like, there's something definitely terrible that's happening here.

We cannot wait the 48 hour waiting period to go look for a missing person. And they started their search that evening, that very same day, which is unheard of.

Mike (19:12.279)
Wow.

Lindsay (19:16.573)
That's awesome. mean, I'm glad they didn't wait 48 hours because it took them about 56 to find you, right? So.

Steph Lincoln (19:24.267)
Yeah, was officially missing for 56 hours.

Mike (19:28.857)
Just the exposure, alone, you start looking at for 48 hours would take out a lot of people. So that is so important that they started so early.

Steph Lincoln (19:37.821)
Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (19:41.599)
Yeah, yeah, because imagine if I, you know, had an injury, right? You know, and especially if I had not been prepared with the gear that I had, which still to this day, is one of my biggest like pet peeves. I still hike by the way, every weekend. And I just I see a majority of the people walking out on the trails without hardly like nothing on them.

Mike (19:45.645)
Mm

Steph Lincoln (20:09.803)
It's gotten better over the years, it's still just when somebody's just trotting out there with a little bottle water in their hand and their cell phone. It's like, we're going on a hike. It's like. That is the thing that could kill you, that decision right there, because, know, you can get hypothermic in any weather. I don't care if it's 100 degrees outside, you could still get hypothermic. And so, you know, no layers, no additional water, no water filtration system like.

Mike (20:25.112)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (20:39.723)
Just the basics, know, there's a 10 basics rule, you know, and people just ignore it. And it's like, I am so grateful for every single item that I had on me that day. And, you know, kind of the hikers mantra is like carry your fears. Like if you feel like are fearful of not having it out there when you really, really need it, then you need to be carrying it on your back. And guess what? It's gonna make you fitter anyway, because you're carrying more weight.

Mike (21:07.267)
Well, it's also more respect for just the elements and nature. On my side, I've been caught in a couple of rift tides and you learn to respect Mother Nature pretty quickly when that happens. so just the lack of being prepared, know, if I had known what to do or had the right gear, it would have been game over for me.

Lindsay (21:07.293)
That's a good point.

Steph Lincoln (21:19.411)
Yes.

Mike (21:31.149)
But you're right, just having that sense that a lot of people are so detached from the natural world that they think they can just go out there, like you said, maybe a bottle water, sometimes not even that, just a cell phone because we're addicted to them, but nothing else. How long did it take you after?

Steph Lincoln (21:47.072)
Yeah.

Lindsay (21:48.529)
Definitely that person, just FYI. Maybe I'll change that now. Because you're like cell phone and some water. I'm like, that's definitely, definitely me.

Steph Lincoln (21:50.283)
Yes, please do.

Right. I mean, we've become so over reliant, right? Like, mean, technology has just really killed our survival skills and our even just our survival awareness, right? I mean, you know, all of us are kind of old enough to remember the days where we actually had to use a physical map to navigate ourselves in the car, right? And just basic things like that were so over reliant. Nowadays, when people like don't, you know, their cell phone is not working or they don't have signal.

They literally cannot drive anywhere. Like, and I have a friend who like she's lived in the same damn town for like 20 years. And like one time like her cell phone stopped working and she was like hysterical, you know, because she could not figure out how to get home. And I was like, you, how do you not even know how to navigate your own neighborhood? And this is how over reliant we are on technology. really sets us up for failure. And that

Failure can be deadly pretty quickly for people.

Mike (22:59.543)
Yeah, can I ask you how long after the rescue? Did you get back on the trail and start hiking again? Did you have any time or like I need to take a little break from this or did you get right back at it?

Steph Lincoln (23:15.411)
Yeah, I did take a break. Not too long. It may have been a couple of weeks, maybe three. And I actually in my book, I write about my first hike back and what I went through and how I kind of navigated that. And yes, it was difficult. then. Being I don't know why, looking back now, I'm like, what was I thinking? Literally.

Mike (23:21.495)
Mm -hmm. That's so quick. I love it.

Steph Lincoln (23:44.783)
that one hike back and it was just like a couple hour hike right and it I had cell phone signal and all the things right it was very safe navigated that check the box okay I struggled a little bit but you know good to go and then I decided I'm gonna go on a backcountry hike in Zion and it literally was like the next week

Mike (24:07.607)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (24:08.137)
So I just jumped in the deep end. After that one, I put my toe in and then I'm like, yeah, I'm good to go. And I jumped in the deep end. So and and that's the last chapter of my book talking about that backcountry Zion experience. I put my pack on and I walked out into.

the remote areas, not even the busy side of Zion. I went to the like desolated side of Zion where nobody is and walked out into the wilderness and back country height just to try to get myself back on the horse. And so I talk in my book about that experience and how I navigated that as well.

Lindsay (24:48.861)
Do you feel that that had the positive effect that theory of getting back on the horse has that like it just kind of ripped the bandaid off and got you back into the mindset that you had prior to this or was it a little too much or how do you feel like?

Steph Lincoln (25:06.525)
Yeah, I mean, certainly I don't believe I will ever be able to go back to before. Like there's no reset button from trauma at all. I believe, you know, I think the most positive thing that you could do navigating trauma is come out the other side with kind of a healthy reflection of

awareness of those things that are, you know, triggering for you, but also very well equipped with some great tools to handle that pretty quickly and effectively. And then also, you know, on the other side of that, and I write about this in my book is the improvements that need to be made from that experience. And I did I mentioned being overconfident, right? That was one of the reasons why I got into the pickle I got into.

over reliance on technology, know, lesson learned number two, right? So if I just approach this trauma, like, well, it's just as a victim, it's like, this happened to me, it's so terrible, I'm just devastated from it. And that's the way I move forward from that point. Then, then what was the point of the trauma? And I really do believe, which is part of the reason why my book is called Born to be Brave, that this was

This incident was kind of the universe's way to kind of take me by the shoulders and shake me and make me very aware of some things that it had been kind of, you know, gently tapping me about over time. And then the tap became a shove and then I ignored that too. And then the tap became kind of a trip. And then I ignored that too. And this time, like the universe was like, yeah, wind it

Mike (27:03.213)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (27:05.607)
I'm gonna knock you out! And that was my knockout punch and I found myself like, okay, universe, got some, here we go, these are the things I need to figure out. So I think it was kind of my last call from the universe saying, you...

Mike (27:21.901)
Mm

Steph Lincoln (27:31.475)
you got to wake up about some of these things. And so even though it had nothing to do with being lost in the woods, some of the mental revelations I had since in my recovery and my healing process, which I was on a call with my therapist like two days after this event, by the way, just really working through some things I had just been letting boil in the background for a while.

Mike (27:57.411)
Hmm.

Steph Lincoln (27:59.531)
And this was my sign that I, if I really wanted to get to a place, which I did several times in those three days that I was missing, where you say, this is the end of my life. Hmm, how was that life? What do I think about? This is it. Like at the time I was 40, okay, how do I feel about the 40?

years I just spent on the planet. there some things I kind of regret? Were there some things I wish I had done differently or worked on? And if you don't come out from that moment and say, hell yeah, I got a lot of work to do, then that's kind of a spit in the face of that experience. And you just get in victim mode and it's like, it's not about me. This happened to me. I don't have to do anything.

Mike (28:32.013)
Mm

Mike (28:48.963)
Yeah.

Mike (28:56.845)
Mm

Right, right. It makes you less. You kind of retreat back into the shell and it takes away from who you are and how you can positively affect other people. Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's, think one of the most important things about coming out the other side of trauma, like you said, is the reflection on what, does finding meaning from it, finding meaning and how you can improve yourself.

in order to help improve the lives of other people and everything around you. So I really love that part of your story.

Steph Lincoln (29:35.583)
Yeah, yeah, and that, mean, and that is key. I mean, we both know this, Mike, from being therapists, right? That is the key to recovery from trauma is finding meaning. And, you know, when you are, when you've gone through trauma and somebody says that to you and you're like, what? Are you kidding me? Like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why would, you know, my rape or my combat experience or my missing persons experience

Mike (29:47.319)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (30:05.481)
have any meaning, you know, and then you get this like anger defensiveness, right? Just like, this means nothing. It was just a horrible thing that happened to me. It's not fair, right? But being able to eventually make that transition and finding some meaning and finding some growth, right? That's why we call post -traumatic growth. Out of that experience is so powerful and so healing.

Mike (30:27.043)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (30:32.366)
I do like that perspective because I've met people and I've had this feeling myself sometimes that you sort of become the trauma, you know, like that's the defining characteristic about yourself. And for me, you know, it could be used to justify my behavior, you know, my poor behavior, like, well, you know, if you had this happen, you would

Steph Lincoln (30:43.049)
Yes.

Steph Lincoln (30:53.536)
Mm -hmm.

Mike (30:56.057)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (30:59.931)
behave like this too. And for me through the process of getting sober, I realized that's not true. You know, just because something bad happened to me does not mean at some point it's still my responsibility how I respond to it. It's still my responsibility. And that may be going and seeking therapy or getting sober or, know, whatever it is, it becomes my, you know, my responsibility, but it took me a long time to not just like play that victim card whenever

I wanted to act like an asshole to be honest. Do know what I mean? It's like, well, poor me. And they have a saying in AA, pour me, pour me, pour me another drink, which is just exactly how, you know, I dealt with trauma. But I never actually had this coherent thought about, I just took responsibility for it I was getting sober. But the way that you guys just put it, I'd never thought about the fact that the trauma in and of itself, that there's like a purpose for it.

Steph Lincoln (31:31.531)
Mm -hmm. Ciao.

Steph Lincoln (31:42.089)
Yes.

Lindsay (31:58.971)
and that it could be looked at that way. So I really appreciate that perspective because I think, you know, I've been sober a long time, but I've those layers of the onion are peeling. And I'm kind of in that situation that you've talked about where like there's there was things knocking on my hello. Hello, the universe. I'm like, yeah, I'm not not going to deal with that. No, they got loud. Yeah, they got loud. And I've.

Steph Lincoln (32:17.173)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yeah, and those knocks are gonna get louder and louder.

Mike (32:21.047)
Mm

Lindsay (32:26.927)
I've taken steps towards that, I still had not looked at it from the perspective of this happened and I can make use of it. still was in actually just till this moment thinking, this just happened to me and I'm a victim and I'm going to figure out how to live happy, but I didn't think about that it being useful. So.

Definitely appreciate that. I'm going to have to talk to my therapist about that because I believe what you said, but also I'm like, but I still want to be the victim of this thing. You know, I still want that to be, you know, not my fault or whatever. So, yeah.

Mike (32:57.367)
Yeah.

Mike (33:03.533)
Yeah, mindset is everything. I think if it's not abundantly clear by now by staff story and by kind of reflections we've had in this episode, mindset can change everything. The situation can go completely wrong or completely right, depending on how you make the most of it with your mind. Yeah, I'm trying to think of follow up questions. Lindsay, what do you have?

Lindsay (33:29.947)
Well, I have follow up question, not about the book or you're being lost, but you mentioned doing adventure racing, I think is something that I've always, I like to watch. I don't know that I would necessarily do it because I can't stand that. I don't think I'm too weak for the sleep deprivation part, but I'm interested in just hearing a little bit about that experience for you. And it sounds like you're on a team and it's just something I think is so

That is just so cool, actually. Do you still do it? Just tell me a little bit about that experience.

Steph Lincoln (34:05.449)
Yeah, and actually, in my book, I think there's two times where I tell a couple of stories about some things that happened during adventure races that I was on that played, that were key lessons learned at the time for me, and that became useful to me when I was missing. And I do that a lot in my book.

Mike (34:23.267)
Hmm.

Steph Lincoln (34:32.323)
you know, kind of following the theme of born to be brave is there, there, were things, there's incidences or things that I did in my life in the past that really contributed to my ability to survive out there for those three days. And adventure racing was one of them. And, on one of our adventure races, we actually became lost. And so that was my first experience with.

triangulation and you know, had some of those recovery strategies that I used out there. Now, they were not useful for Timmy, but at least I did them and I had that experience of doing that. Also, you know, becoming, you know, going through that sleep deprivation. I mean, we, did a 300 mile race where, you know, it was, I think we raced for, gosh, it was 28 hours.

so I had gone 28 hours, you know, doing a very ex, you know, strenuous physical effort with no sleep. so having that history of being able to tolerate that and knowing that I can physically tolerate that, I think, you know, like what Mike was alluding to was, you know, the mind is so powerful and we don't give our mind that much credit.

on how it can help us navigate. we just basically just believe, well, I believe that I can't go more than four hours without food. And it's like, well, but no, that's not actually how your biology is built. But it's just because you believe it, then it makes it true. And so there's countless experiences anecdotally and even in research.

where people have this just profound power of mind and are even able to do things that they've never been able to do before in their lives just because their profound belief that they could came up or it was essential in that moment and they were able to do it, right? And it's like, do you believe that you can lift a car? Well, none of us believe we can lift a car, but guess what? Plenty of people have done it.

Mike (36:48.588)
Mm

Steph Lincoln (36:59.859)
because they were in a moment where somebody was trapped under a car and they had had to get to the place of power of belief that they could lift the car and they actually lifted the damn car. Like this is how amazing our bodies are. And the only thing that limits it is our mind. And so that's that's the biggest thing I learned from adventure racing. And I was in my 20s. So, you know, I had.

all the energy and you know, young and I happen to be the only idiot who, know, because all the adventure racing teams, have to have at least one female, right? And so these SF guys that I worked with in the guard, they were, you know, wanting to get into adventure racing. And I was, you know, the one young and dumb enough and fit enough to say yes.

Lindsay (37:30.935)
Steph Lincoln (37:56.639)
when they asked me to join their team. And so there I was training with them for hundreds of miles a week and, you know, completing, I think we completed three races doing adventure racing. And it was each time I learned something really profound about the power of the mind, the power of the body, and just how amazingly

know, dynamic and performance that you can get and tap into in these little human bodies of ours.

Lindsay (38:31.338)
I watched and I can't remember the name of the show, something like the world's toughest race or something like that. yeah, yeah.

Steph Lincoln (38:36.809)
Yes, that's the Eco Challenge. It used to be called the Eco Challenge. We were actually training for that race. Yeah.

Lindsay (38:42.097)
that it looked it looked interesting. But on the show, they had that team. I don't remember if they had a team that had a bunch of iron iron man. They had like the iron cowboy and some other, you know, well known triathletes. And I just remember watching them come into the race with quite a bit of ego, you know, like, we've done X, Y, Z Iron Man. And I had I knew I know somebody a couple of people that have done adventure racing and

Steph Lincoln (39:03.829)
Mm -hmm

Lindsay (39:11.869)
They've done Iron Man 2, but not the same thing, you know? And I just remember thinking, good luck. We'll see how that goes, because it was very much, because you could see the people who had experienced totally different vibe, like in a zone getting ready. And these people were like, raw, where the shit? And fast forward, like not very long. mean, hardly into it. The woman's like,

Steph Lincoln (39:36.245)
huh.

Lindsay (39:39.265)
at the aid station or whatever they call it, like sitting on the side of this car, like shivering and crying. And one of the guys is freaking out. And they ended up tapping out from my remember before it got really gnarly. So that that mindset of like, we are badasses because we did this other thing did not help them, you know, in that moment at all at all.

Mike (39:49.304)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (40:01.865)
Yeah. Well, you may recall actually, so Team Unbroken was on that and they are an all disabled team. And I think every single one but one are actually disabled military veterans. And I actually had the pleasure of having a relationship with one of those team members.

Lindsay (40:20.898)
Mike (40:22.265)
Mm

Steph Lincoln (40:29.283)
And they have actually asked me to be one of their alternates for their team. So maybe next year I might start training up and take them up on that. it's, they, their stories of overcoming, you know, they're again, like disability, you know, and especially, you know, Gretchen, who is, she is completely deaf.

Lindsay (40:33.425)
That's awesome.

Mike (40:39.357)
That's exciting.

Steph Lincoln (40:54.795)
and had very significant trapinal injuries and traumatic brain injuries. And she was deafened by her experience and she went through terrible depression and suicidal ideation and her story is so profound and powerful. to see her, think she's, forgive me Gretchen, she might be pushing 60.

Like just to look at like this is somebody that you know has been kind of labeled as broken, right? Which they name their team Team Unbroken. And they have really they really prove with everything that they do is that no, this is this doesn't define you, right? That moment in your life, this what happened to you that doesn't define you as broken like you. You can translate this and grow from this and show just how

amazing the human mind and human body is and how you can grow from this and do things that you never would have thought you would have able to do before your trauma or injury,

Lindsay (42:07.901)
Well, that's incredibly inspirational and motivating. And I appreciate you sharing the story. I will say for the listener, before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about strength training. If you remember a couple episodes ago, Mike was saying that he was working with a new strength coach, which is Steph. right before this, we started recording this episode, I was talking about how

I'm being a big old baby and didn't want to do any strength training, even though I know the benefits of it. And then I need to do it, especially at my age. And now I'm listening to this and I'm like, well, geez, mean, all of my reasons are completely just pathetic and not even really true.

Steph Lincoln (42:47.115)
Exactly. I'm sure Mike, mean, Mike's an endurance athlete too. You know, we all have our strategies on kind of overcoming that bad attitude and that resistance, right? But that is one of mine is, you know, when I get a bad attitude about working out or whatever, I do think about that. I think of the Gretchen's of the world, right? I'll even pull up YouTube videos of, you know, of

Lindsay (42:57.305)
you

Mike (43:08.408)
Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (43:13.511)
Iraqi veterans and you know from the Iraq war who got their legs blown off and they're doing freaking pull -ups with their wheelchairs strapped to them like Shut the fuck up What am I bitching about like I didn't get my legs blown off in Iraq like I and I mean when we're camped me like You know like it really is perspective like it's like

Mike (43:22.775)
Yeah, yeah.

Lindsay (43:31.591)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Mike (43:34.723)
Yeah. Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (43:40.139)
Shut up! This is nothing! This silly little 30 minute workout is nothing compared to what people who have had significant injuries or chronic illnesses and really have overcome those and they're out there just killing it. I don't even have to look like that. I don't have to do pull -ups with a wheelchair strapped to me. I just have to do this stupid little 30 minute workout. That's nothing.

Lindsay (43:41.083)
Mm -hmm.

Lindsay (44:06.124)
Right, right, right. And I think we can end on this, really quickly, unless Mike, you have more questions, do you have? Okay, cool. Just really quickly on that note of working out and being able to motivate yourself. And you mentioned, you know, when you were out in the woods, just thinking about this is end of my life. So was I happy with that 40 years leading up to that? That's something.

I know a lot of people can relate to putting things like the job ahead of their individual health. That's something that I do. I will sit at my desk and be an accountant for 10, 12 hours and think, I don't have time to work out. it's like, when I'm on my...

Steph Lincoln (44:39.551)
Yeah.

Lindsay (44:50.333)
deathbed, am I going to go, well, I build 15 hours that day. So really proud of myself. Or am I going to think about these experiences that I had working out and with my community and, you know, spending time with my family and all of that stuff. So I appreciate the reminder of that, because it I'm sure my boss appreciates me trying to and all of us putting our work ahead of our lives. But that's not really what we're on this planet for to do accounting.

Steph Lincoln (44:54.335)
Yes. That's, yes.

Mm -hmm.

Steph Lincoln (45:16.797)
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that you brought that up. I do talk about that in my book. And absolutely, I can attest to that. And I'm sure Mike can attest to that too, because Mike was in some pretty, I'm sure you thought your life was going to end many times in your experiences in combat. And you do. You do have that profound realization of, well, shit.

Mike (45:35.806)
Yeah.

Steph Lincoln (45:46.023)
I mean, it becomes very clear very quickly. It's like I did the wrong thing. I treated that person poorly. I, you know, put my time into the wrong things that were not valuable. And just one antidote from that when when I got out of the police car and my husband, I saw my husband for the first time and we hugged.

He whispered to me, I have no regrets. I have no regrets. And I actually started laughing. And I said, yeah? I said, wonderful to hear that. Guess what? I have a lot.

And I got to work on that. so talk about two different experiences. He came to the realization that he, know, everything up to that moment, he was very happy with. And if that would have been the end, then that would have been the end. And he would have been okay with that. For me, it wasn't. I had some work to do. And I needed to really follow through with that promise of doing it.

Mike (47:02.487)
Yeah, and then that way it's such a gift.

Lindsay (47:03.869)
them. Yeah, really cool.

Steph Lincoln (47:06.706)
Absolutely.

Lindsay (47:09.521)
Mike, you wanna take us out?

Mike (47:11.895)
Yeah. Well,

Steph, thank you so much for being on our show. And I know I speak for both of us. We'd love to have you back and talk about some of these other topics in more detail. But just to share your experience and give our listeners a taste of what it's like to have an elite mindset and what it's like to overcome and what it's like to use that.

Experience that you could easily victimize someone for good and to strengthen your life and the lives of other people it's just such a an awesome gift, so thank you for being with us I appreciate it and Yeah, why don't I give you the last word and and let us know just anything else that was on your heart

Lindsay (48:05.083)
people can.

Steph Lincoln (48:06.719)
Yeah, yeah, please check out. mean, if you're interested, check out my book. It's available wherever books are sold and hardback paperback and big announcement. I'm starting the recording for my audio book next week. So at that will be launching. I'm to have that drop the weekend of Veterans Day right before Veterans Day. So yeah, yeah. So very excited about that. But

Lindsay (48:20.645)
Yay! my gosh, so good.

Mike (48:22.029)
Yes.

Mike (48:29.994)
Excellent.

Lindsay (48:31.349)
That's awesome.

Steph Lincoln (48:34.921)
Yeah, please check out the book if you're interested and, know, it's, it's a obviously spoiler alert, you already know what happened, but I hope I give you some, you know, details and some reflections that are helpful for your own journey and your own healing journey. You don't have to have gone through a trauma to, still kind of get some lessons learned out of, out of what I went through. And hopefully it'll save you from having to have the universe.

Mike (48:43.809)
I

Steph Lincoln (49:04.863)
do a little TKO, a little punch. Maybe you could do the work before and avoid that, you know, learn from my mistakes in the long run. So thank you so much for having me on the show.

Lindsay (49:16.999)
Thank you and we will put links and information about stuff in the show notes. And I think that's it. See you guys next week. Bye.

Steph Lincoln (49:26.696)
Bye, thanks.